Untamed Irish Eyes

I love it David. Titillating to say the least, I think I remember this one, but it was like reading it for the first time.

Comment by Tracy

October 3rd 2008 06:03

There's nothing or not enough that I can say (in general) to describe my appreciation of your poems. Today I'm particularly incoherent but wanted to let you know this was avidly devoured .

Tracy

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 3rd 2008 06:04

Kleo,

Yeah, I like this one a lot. I'm a bit over rewriting poems from memory, though.

There are days when I wish I was over writing full-stop. Days when I wish I could live a "normal" existence.

I was having a chat about "normality" last night. No idea why when I don't relate to it.

But, anyway, this woman said, her daughter was asked the question, "What is normal?"

And her response was:

"Anything I can relate to."

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 3rd 2008 06:47

Tracy,

Sometimes people write comments like yours, and say things like:

There's nothing or not enough that I can say (in general) to describe my appreciation of your poems.

From the writer's perspective? They're as good as compliments get. So, thanks.

I view positive feedback as an encouragement. I'm so over criticism for its own sake. Or miserable people inflicing their own misery upon others, and trying to drown them in their own misery to make them feel better about themselves. Or superior?

There's a lot of wasted words in this life. Both verbally and on the page/screen. (And in our heads?).

One of the things I most love about is poetry is you have to get every word right. Tighten the prose. And it spills over into real life. You think before you speak. Or write.

And you reckon you're incoherent today?

PS: Hope hubby is in a 'devouring' mood.

Comment by Tracy

October 3rd 2008 22:05

Hi HM

I agree: There's a lot of wasted words in this life. Both verbally and on the page/screen. (And in our heads?). Have you been talking to my mother-in-law?! Mean I know, but true and nice to vent.

Beautifully succint words: One of the things I most love about is poetry is you have to get every word right. Tighten the prose. And it spills over into real life. You think before you speak. Or write.

PS My husband is always up for some devouring...

Comment by Kleonaptra

October 4th 2008 04:54

Yes I agree,

One of the things I most love about is poetry is you have to get every word right. Tighten the prose. And it spills over into real life. You think before you speak. Or write.

So true. Would you two stop using that word....Or I will have to go back to bed!

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 5th 2008 04:03

Tracy,

What better place to vent than on Orble?

I don't know if I've been talking to your mother-in-law or not. What's her phone number? Is she on any adult dating sites? Or, is she a telemarketer? They're about the only people I speak to nowadays.

Thanks for the compliments re: succinticity. I'm convinced I write better when I'm trashed. Even when I do use words that don't exist.

As to this?

PS My husband is always up for some devouring...

You're ovbviously a good cook.

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 5th 2008 04:06

Kleo,

I'm not sure which word you're referring to.

Did you mean devouring?

Comment by Kleonaptra

October 6th 2008 21:20

Indeed!

Comment by Lilla

October 6th 2008 23:37

David,

each time you have re-written this poem, I have liked it more .. this is no exception.

I cannot pick out a favourite part, but :

When her blinks at the sun
make it scatter and run
to shelter its eyes from

the wink she reserves for the night

I love the way it ends .. and the way the picture anchors it to such a subtle reality.

Masterful, and as always an inspiration.

Lilla ...

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 7th 2008 01:47

Lilla,

First of all. Thanks.

It's interesting that you would pick up on the end of the poem, and talk about not necessarily having a favourite part.

Usually readers have favourite parts I don't necessarly like, and don't comment much on the beginning or end, whereas the beginning and end of a poem are crucial to me.

I love the urgency of the end. Which wasn't deliberate. It was just the way it came out. But it's almost as if it's an invitation to go back to the start.

One of the things Graeme hammered into us was that the beginning and end of a poem are 'more than' important, and should tie in together. The beginning is probably more important, for it is the hook that draws the reader in. But, you should be able to put the opening and ending of a poem together, and see a relationship between the two. It does help if the middle bits are just as good. That's where the majority of the hard work and sweat comes in. Almost sounds like I'm talking about a job.

Comment by Lilla

October 7th 2008 21:47

*laughs* an interesting analogy. For me there is frequently very little difference! Work often seems like poetry and writing poetry is often such hard work ~ exactly as you say ..

I think I should have liked to meet Graeme, from the way you often speak of him, I feel that learning from him was anything but hard work, despite it often seeming brutal?

I love the urgency of the end. Which wasn't deliberate. It was just the way it came out. But it's almost as if it's an invitation to go back to the start.

That is exactly how it makes me feel and why I liked it so much. The way it fed back to its own roots with the clear impression left on the reader of her cyclic existence (a prisoner of sorts?) .. yet fresh in her renewal each time..

I like it even more now I have re~read it, too..

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 7th 2008 23:26

Lilla,

Graeme was a great teacher. You only had to be willing to learn. Which many weren't. They wouldn't even believe poetry is a craft.

How can you teach someone a profession or trade if they refuse to learn how to use the tools? Or deny you even need them? It's like trying to build a house with a hammer. You need a full toolbox. You might not use every tool you own on every house, but you need them all. You'll eventually use them all.

But no. Some people claim they could build a house without doing an apprenticeship in building. With a hammer. They don't even see any necessity for nails. Or wood?

And that's the attitude a lot of people bring to writing. They want all the credit for their own brilliance, so they refuse to let anyone else teach them anything. So they wallow in their own ignorance?

Graeme's 'brutality' was always in the name of making you a better poet. It never bothered me. If something I wrote was a complete piece of shit, I wanted to know that. I also wanted to know why it was. And what to do to correct that.

Graeme never said something was a piece of shit. He'd say things like, "This poem has potential, but I think you should get rid of the first stanza and start at the second one. You can always keep the first stanza for another poem, but I wouldn't. I'd toss it out and forget I ever wrote it."

Too many people think poetry is only about expressing your emotions. There's a huge market out there for soppy, mushy, sentimental crap that is totally vague and abstract. Poems without imagery. Poems without people. Poems without objects. Poems without craft. Just 'oh-so naturally gifted poets' writing down how they feel about this or that. 'Creative geniuses' who don't need to be taught anything about the writing process. Churning out poems about feelings. Hoping to connect with other like-minded emotional individuals who will praise their emotional outpourings as the best thing they've read for ages?

If people want to write that sort of stuff? And read it? And buy it even? They're entitled to. It's not my gig. I'll leave them to it.

I dont' read Mills & Boone novels. But there's a market for romance novels. I don't particularly like poems about feelings only. But there's a market for them.

Poems should be charged with emotion and passion, but they should be a bit more than an outpouring of emotion and passion.

I blame Dr Phil.

Pablo Neruda explains this a lot better than I ever could in his poem, 'I'm explaining a few things.'

I'm Explaining a Few Things

You are going to ask: and where are the lilacs?
and the poppy-petalled metaphysics?
and the rain repeatedly spattering
its words and drilling them full
of apertures and birds?
I'll tell you all the news.

...

And you'll ask: why doesn't his poetry
speak of dreams and leaves
and the great volcanoes of his native land?

Come and see the blood in the streets.
Come and see
The blood in the streets.
Come and see the blood
In the streets!

... [it's quite a long poem. I'm only including the opening and ending. you can find the full poem at:

Really Long Link

Comment by Tracy

October 7th 2008 23:46

Dear Henrietta

So succinticity isn’t a word? I don’t see why it isn’t. Would you mind if I start using it?

Tracy

Comment by Kleonaptra

October 8th 2008 00:03

It seems, what makes a great writer is a great teacher. You mention Graeme as much as I go on about Ian.

Comment by Tracy

October 8th 2008 00:06

I think I need a teacher, I have no Graemes or Ians in my life.

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 8th 2008 04:59

Tracy,

Any non-words I make up, you are welcome to use. I'm not precious about them. Feel free to use succincticity.

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 8th 2008 05:30

Kleo,

There'll always be a bloody exception to every rule, but I cringe to think of what my writing would be like today if I hadn't studied the craft of creative writing under someone who[m] knew a lot more about the process than I did at the time.

I don't just mention Graeme to give him his due credit. I mention him in the hope that people serious about improving their writing skills will realise writing away by themselves and refusing instruction is a pretty silly way of going about it.

Don't get me wrong. It's great that people write. I'm not suggesting people shouldn't 't write away by themselves. Of course they should, but that's only part of the process. Instruction is a bigger part of it in the initial stages. It saves reams and reams of paper. But anyone who has written for a while knows how often they come across parts of their writing and go, "It's not coming out the way I want it to." Yet, they don't have the craft tools to fix it. And they don't even know what's actually wrong with it. One simple instruction from someone who knows what they're talking about fixes that. But they have to be prepared to concede other people know more than they do. It's probably the biggest stumbling block for the writer. His or her own ego.

It's like trying to hammer a screw in. You're much better off using a screwdriver.

Anyway, that's my writing rant over for the day.

Comment by Lilla

October 8th 2008 09:16

David,

I take your point and appreciation of Graeme; and all teachers who share the ability to help struggling poets/writers hone their skills.. it is a most valid point and one I have also rectified with some tuition of my own.

But I wanted to talk about your analogy and point regarding the proper tool kit for such endeavours, because it has been my observation in life that there is much truth in the adage that many a bad workman will blame his tools, no matter how good they are. It is safe therefore to say, that even with the best tool kit, a dullard will be unable to even contemplate building a decent house, let alone conceptualise it, then design and create it himself (even with tuition?) .. and it is in this regard that I think you underestimate yourself and your own abilities in my appreciation of your work/poetry (in general).

Again, I do not doubt for a minute that a teacher can brush up anyones prose a notch or two, but as I said, you must be able to see the concept and have a modicum of intelligence to be able to use the simplest of tools with effective skill and ease (even patient practice perhaps?) in bringing the original concept (or image) through the use of those tools..

As you so rightly said earlier; the middle bit (in expressing ourselves) is something we all aspire to as poets, writers and authors of every magnitude and in this regard, I appreciate your poetry above many others I have read, both famous and infamous, because of your ability to use those tools so effectively .. and again point out your works ability to inspire my own writing / efforts.

Of course we will always agree, that Nerudas grittiness and beauty created works easily amongst the greats when it comes to expressing his view of life and his love of women through similar tools;. all with the quality (not unlike your own), in making every woman feel like she is the most sublime creature on the planet.

Too many people think poetry is only about expressing your emotions. There's a huge market out there for soppy, mushy, sentimental crap that is totally vague and abstract.

Tell me, (and bear with me because this is why all my teachers have found me such a challenge), but wouldnt there be a slightly different set of tools made for the feminine hand to use to craft a poem that reached others of her own sex on different levels, than those used to reach across the gender barrier; or are the tools the same?

Can you imagine that I have lost the ability to use hyphens , inverted commas and the three dots (forgotten its name) on orble?!* For some reason I get gibberish codes when I try to use them as orble thinks I am an apple mac or something? *giggle* I mean for the love of God, how can you create the right pace or erotic ambience without them? (Luckily for me I still have things like brackets and question marks ) .. (and two dots?) ..

I hope you continue to charm us all with more of your wonderful *buildings*

Lilla ..

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 8th 2008 10:03

Lilla,

There's a lot I could respond to from your last comment. Which was a great comment btw. It's one of the things I missed about blogging. A bit of intelligent conversation.

Time permitting I'll try to get to more than one of your points. But I'll answer what I think is the most important question you asked. This one:

A hammer is a hammer. Some blokes have huge hands and like a huge handle. Some guys have small hands and like a more delicate handle. Some women like painting the handle pink. And decorating it. But it remains a hammer. The tool box for a writer/poet contains the same tools regardless of gender. They just look a bit different. But again, a hammer is a hammer. Or pehaps I should have used a chisel analogy. Because you're carving more than hammering. Or a paintbrush, because you're painting pictures with words? But you get my drift. Whether you're a male tradesman or a female tradesperson, you use the same tools. And some women look alright in overalls. The butch ones don't do much for me, but that's another story.

There was a woman in my writing class. Nadine. Now she could write poetry. And we often used to chat about poetry. (One night we dispensed with poetry altogether, but that's another story altogether). We wrote such different poetry, and yet fed off each other. I would never say my poetry was better than hers. She just wrote poetry from a different angle. She was a mother of three children, and wrote about completely different subjects. Divorced mother okay? For want of a better expression? We both inspired each other to write better poetry.

But, we both agreed that Graeme furnished us with the same tools. Or told us where to buy them, and left it up to us what sized hammer or chisel handle we chose from Bunnings.

I hope that answers your question.

Comment by Lilla

October 10th 2008 04:38

Yes, some useful food for thought ... thank you.

Comment by Lady Henrietta Muddling

October 10th 2008 21:56

I don't think the quest for equality should be about looking and acting like a man. It should be about using his hammer.

Comment by Lilla

October 17th 2008 09:45