Tom Craven

Fremantle, Western Australia, AUSTRALIA


Joined April 24th 2008

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Tom Craven

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The Religion Of Atheism

March 10th 2009 22:37
These comment are in response to TOM FLYNN, who is trying to excommunicate himself from the Church, it's shame he hasn't read the Cathechism, as it would save him a lot of trouble. You can read about his bigoted adventures at:http://www.secularhumanism .org/index...age=flynn_29_2)

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Excommunication is when you aren't in communion with the Church, if you are an atheist then you are effectively excommunicated anyway. So if your issue is that people may consider you to be part of the Church, than there is no problem because your not. But I don't think that is the issue here at all, the issue as it always with bigoted and militant atheists is that the Church exists and the Church is doing something contrary to what these bigots are doing. These people scream at the Church for "forcing" religion down their throats, when Atheists are just as bad, and usually much, much worse. They turn Atheism into a religion of its own, they try and convert people to their "religion". Look at WYD the Atheist Foundation of Australia supported the NotoPope Movement, they tried to stop the Pope, a world leader coming here, look at the hypocrisy! The Atheist Foundation is funded and gave funding to the Raelian Movement at WYD(alien cult who worship a French journalist who says he is Jesus and claim Jesus cloned himself). -(slight hypocrisy) -Then at the same time we get Atheists paying for ad's on buses, now who is forcing their beliefs down our throats?

I have no problem with people being atheists, I have a problem when people turn atheism into a religion. It is not a religion, by turning it into a religion, you are simply becoming one of those 'religious hypocrites' you love so much. Or is it because you have to believe something? Well that’s ok, if it makes you sleep better at night because you worship Atheism, than that’s great. I'm sure your God will agree with you.
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The Catholic Church

May 27th 2008 08:30
What seems to be the social norm these days is for everyone to have a go at organised religion, calling it the root of all evil and openly declaring one’s atheism like itself were a religion. But what our anti-religion friends forget to tell you, in between their unsubstantiated rants is the facts, and the facts are good.

Firstly, let us briefly examine the history of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church came into being around 40 A.D with the first Pope St.Peter it became legal around 400 A.D (following 400 years or rigorous persecution) with the reign of Emperor Constantine. The Church continued as the one branch of Catholicism up until 1000 with the first schism and then leading up to the reformation in the 1500’s. There have been no substantial break ups since the 1500’s. In that entire time, around 2000 years the Church has never changed its stance on any area of teaching, it has equivocally held up the same teachings for over 2000 years. Those teachings for the most part have been of peace and following the teachings of Jesus Christ, and since when was following Jesus’ example a bad thing?

The Church’s role over the last 100 years has been nothing but inspirational, and a close examination will reveal the hidden mysteries that the religion hating moguls don’t want you to see. In the 1940’s in Germany no organisation or group of people stood up to Hitler except one, and no it wasn’t a bunch of atheists it was the Catholic Church. Albert Einstein had this to say:

‘"Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty”

Isn’t is amazing how this fact is never publicised by those people?

Even in the last 25 years the Church has been the center of the criticism of horrendous governments, in the late 1980’s what was the organisation that stood up to communism in Poland? Who was the man who rang the Russian president and ordered him to withdraw his troops from Poland? It was not the U.S President, it was the Pope. No one else, stood up to be counted. The Pope had the courage, and he and the Church stood up for what it believed in. What I find ironic is the same people that insult the Church were the same people who were calling for communism in the 60s-80s.


You might not agree with all the Church’s teachings on AIDS, abortion, homosexuals and even faith. But the Church is the only organisation in the world that a 100% record when it comes to protecting the human race, think about that next time you hear a rant, who do you count on to defend your rights, the hateful atheist or the Church that has been protecting rights for over 2000 years?
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The Working Poor

May 26th 2008 11:01
Too often in our capitalistic society we hear the common upper class phrase “poor people should just work harder”, every time this horrendous muttering is spoken we as a society suffer as a result. It is not just about working harder, being poor does not mean you are lazy. Being poor means that our society has gone past you, its means that you have been disenfranchised by a society filled with a greedy and selfish nature. If this is news to you, and you still subjectively believe that ‘poor people should just work harder’, read these stories, with an objective mind.

It may comes as news to you but in the 1890’s, Australia suffered one of its worse economic recessions. Every single bank in Australia closed down and ceased to exist along with the money in its over filling coffers. Imagine if that happened today, if Westpac, Commonwealth, NAB and ANZ closed down along with your money. Imagine the rebellion and imagine the poverty. A man named James Butlin was 65 at the times of the collapse he built himself a fortune out of fruit selling and was retired. He was living his ‘golden years’ with wealth and affluence. But when the banks collapsed his money vanished, with no money or savings he could not afford to live. He was forced to sell his house. James at the age of 65 had to work the same job as he did when he was 13, shearing sheep. He went from the squatocracy to someone living on the street, shearing the occasional sheep, begging for money for survival. This is capitalism, this is our country.

In 2008, interest rates raised again for the tenth consecutive time. Tony Butlin, James’ great grandson works as a tire fitter, he is a member of the union. With the tenth rise, the house is repossessed by the banks, the locks are changed. He lives in his car, traveling the streets of suburbia hiding from the local ranger who will tell him to move on. He could be me, he could be you. This is capitalism, this is our country.

Many of us who work hard are rewarded, but in fact of the 100% that work hard only 2% control 50% of all the wealth. The rest of us that’s 98% are left to fight for the other 50%. How is that fair? We all work hard, and our reward is a dogfight till the death, trying to get our grubby hands on just a small slice of the wealth. And it’s going to get a whole lot worse, with the economic recession closing on us, more repossessions seem likely, more poverty seems likely. We need to band together, we know we work hard, we know we ALL work hard. Lets get our share, lets spread the wealth. Let 2% control 2% of the wealth, lets bring in the democratic socialisation of industry and banks. Lets fix this bloody country.
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Recently I posted an article named 'Socialism Is Not A Dirty Word By John Stirlingclick here to see the article. It has received both of praise and criticism. In this follow up I would like to rebut the arguments against socialism that were raised is comments and emails.

Firstly, I totally and equivocally reaffirm my belief that Democratic Socialism is the best system of governance and economics that we posses. There is nothing wrong with putting some of the means of production into the hands of the workers, not the owners. We must spread the wealth, so that we no poor and no rich. Everyone is equal, there is no greed, no profit rather consumption. Every man is judged by his need not his want. Capitalism has had its turn, and its failed, it is the time of the worker. It is the time for Democratic Socialism


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By John Stirling

The Independent Australian
The Independent Australian

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Parliament Needs Urgent Tweaking

May 11th 2008 09:39
Parliament is supposed to be the start and end of society, but it is riddled with errors and needs urgent reform.

Parliament is supposed be made up of parliamentarians who represent their individual communities, this role has changed so much over time that MP’s (especially in Federal Parliament) rarely represent their local community. Individual MP’s usually act to represent their party and its policy. Obviously acting when within the bounds of party policy MP’s are restricted to what they can do for their local areas. MP’s become subordinate to party discipline, but this subordination also extends to the executives power over MPs. Due to the executive’s power and party alliances, parliament has in some ways become little more than a rubber stamp for the public record which leaves the real governance to the executive


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The Hidden Beauty of Britannia

May 5th 2008 13:32


God Save the Queen,

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As the AFL season rages on with Geelong and the fall of West Coast the big news, few of us are aware that an equally important competition is also going on, that of the WAFL.

In years gone the WAFL was bigger then Ben Hurr and it provided WA fans with more then its fair share of football action. Many footy greats played their best years in the WAFL; examples include Polly Farmer, Brian Peake and George Doig. Well what has changed? WA is the still producing awesome footballers, WA is still a prominent football state but WA has changed, and changed for the worst


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The Barracking Mentality

April 30th 2008 09:27
Australian Yobbo’s draping themselves in Australian flags, bogans with stickers of the flag on the back of their Holden ute and hoons wearing shirts with slogans like ‘if you don’t like it get out’ or ‘we grew here, you flew here’. Please someone tell me, what is happening to our country?

It’s bad enough with sport; we as ordinary Australians are constantly subjected to the ‘barracking mentality’ of Australian culture. Sporting commentators and normal Australian’s alike constantly yap on about how sport is such an integral part of our culture and why sport shows the real Aussie spirit. Since when did kicking some leather with air in it become an important celebration of culture? This is what is happening, to our country. We had a culture once, glance back to Federation or even just after WW2, an emerging culture of youth and new Australianism came into existence. We still had pride in our country, more so than today, but we did not behave like we do today. Today we support our country in the same way we support a sporting club, this a dangerous mentality to have. Our country is not a sporting team, it is a country and it should be treated with some kind of reverence


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Commentators in this country of late have been championing the card of Kevin Rudd: The Man With No Substance. They argue that he is as plastic as the bumper stickers that bear his name and as shallow as Julie Bishop’s supporters, apparently he has no policy just a smile and some quiff gibberish about working families. People who have this opinion no doubt desire a return to the ‘Glory Day’s, the return to Howard; a man so out of touch he lost his own seat being only one of two PM’s in over a hundred years to do so.

In Howard’s first term as PM the only notable policy he introduced was gun laws (which was entirely circumstantial), partly selling Telstra (the fledging phone company) and trying to destroy Industrial Relations. None of these were important election promises, since Rudd has been in office for just under 200 days he has dismantled the idiotic WorkChoices, increased funding to non-government schools, signed Kyoto, said ‘Sorry’, started the process for a Republic, increased relationships with China and removed Troops from Iraq.Sounds like a lot, in fact more than Howard in a shorter time period. Rudd has delivered on his promises, his made the country more Labor which is what he intended and it’s what the Australian public voted for


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Recent Comments

Comment by Tom Craven
on A Rebuttal To the Arguments Against Socialism

May 31st 2009 04:35
Well yes and no, I truly believe the current system of capitalism is the worst we can have, I believe that we can limit the bad effects of capitalism while maximizing the best ones. What I'm arguing for is the best of both worlds, some free enterprise as well as a state where no one is left behind.

If we look at our society now, the people at the bottom or the majority do the bulk of the work, but they receive the least award in terms of money,in a social democracy the majority of the people are rewarded. If people these days work to empower the people at the top, than surely people will work even harder if it directly empowers them.

Private companies are run for the benefit of the shareholders this means that the company will do anything to get ahead. Under a Democratic Socialist regime the company is run to benefit the community. This means the company's reason to exist is to benefit the community not for the profit. It's a totally different philosophy. I don't agree that there would be greed under Democratic Socialism due to the nature of everyone owning the means of production, but even if there was it would be far, far less than what we have now.

Comment by Tom Craven
on The Catholic Church

June 6th 2008 07:13
lol at jeff's intelligence

Comment by Tom Craven
on The Catholic Church

May 28th 2008 12:43
hahahah, the man was not perfect. He lived in the middle ages for fs. That was the social norm. What a stupid example

Comment by Tom Craven
on The Catholic Church

May 28th 2008 11:54
Firstly,

Your points on Mother Theresa are not exactly valid. So she opposed reforms at Vatican 2, that is a real non-issue for me. I mean seriously so she cares about her faith and she wants to practice it in a particular way, what is wrong with that?

Ok so she wants to stop remarriage, that is common Catholic doctrine. As Jesus says anyone who remarries after divorce commits adultery, that what he said, she as a Catholic has a duty to uphold that. As For Princes Diana she congratulated her on leaving an unhappy divorce, there's nothing wrong with that If she congratulated on her on getting remarried there would be an issue, but she didn't. With the poor conditions let us remember that the hospital is in a 3rd world country, I defy you to find a first class medical facility there on the funds she had. Let us also remember she is running an order and there are other hospitals to support. She did all she could with what she had. Honestly as I said before criticizing her is like professing your love for Hitler.

Ok, Damo is simply asking you are criticizing the Church who provides aid when you give no aid yourself, it is a very,very valid point.
Now as for Mother Theresa's quote about not believing in God and such, I totally sympathise with that. As St.Thomas Aquinas said 'doubt rekindles faith'. Just because you have doubt does not mean you do not believe in God, its natural. We all have doubts, and with the stuff she was seeing its perfectly understandable. Honestly what an idiotic point.

The Church has made mistake but as a whole no other organisation in all history has done as much good. If there is one please provide it...... didn't think so.

Yes, I am a socialist, but I am wise enough to distinguish faith from the system of government, and I do not agree with some of Marx's writings which further illustrate this point.

I have researched the Church for years, and honestly the bad it has done is so outweighed by the good it is amazing anyone has the mind to question it.

Comment by Tom Craven
on The Catholic Church

May 28th 2008 08:36
The fact that you are using 'suffering' as a negative point, proves that you know NOTHING about Catholicism. Please don't talk about what you don't understand.

Comment by Tom Craven
on The Catholic Church

May 28th 2008 01:46
I find it amazing, baffling even the amount of anti-Catholicism and religion on this board the very thing that has protected you for so long, you feel the need to insult and insult.

Firstly, I do not hate atheists, I however feel that many atheists treat atheism like a religion which is very thing they are trying to stop. The Atheist Foundation of Australia says in its constitution that it aim is to 'spread atheism', this is the kind of thing we have to contend with, people who hate religion but yet go around spreading their own in their own selfish manner. As for Atheism giving money to charity, the biggest private aid giver in the world is the Catholic Church, besides Amnesty(which is half catholic) I never even heard of the other charities. So much for the good atheism does, it doesn't exist.

As for Mother Teresa honestly grow up, thats like saying Hitler was a top bloke. Nobel Peace Price, numerous international awards. She was a saint. The center of criticism about her seems to be around the poor conditions of her hospital, I tell you what its hard to run a good hospital in a 3rd world country with no money. GROW UP.

As for Mary, (I noticed you let Magadelene slide) she is the most venerated figure besides Christ in the Church, the fact that you think she is venerated because she was a virgin really demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the Church. She is venerated because she is Christ's mother and for her immense strength of character and her charitable intercession. If she wore not a virgin, it would not matter in the slightest. By saying 'virgin Mary', one is not expressing Mary as wonderful because she was a virgin, but in awe about how God made a Virgin pregnant. Learn your facts.

Your whole rant seems to be based around half-trues and simply lies. I suggest you think about the God that Catholicism has done for this world, and cease to criticize one of the few good things we as humans have.

Comment by Tom Craven
on The Catholic Church

May 27th 2008 13:39
the facts ey, the good of atheism? When was the last time atheism opened up a hospital in Calcutta? When was the last time Atheism gave aid to Africa? And when was the last time atheism gave food to that starving man?

Comment by Tom Craven
on The Catholic Church

May 27th 2008 12:34
Actually the Church has a cleaner record of child abuse then the state does, it had paid more compensation then the state has, but it has a far less lower percentile of abusive teachers than the state system. Something like 0.01% are abusers, while in the state system the number is higher to 0.9%.

And the crusades, if basic history lessons are anything to go by I seem to recall the Muslim armies invading a Christian country and that Christian country (Byzantine) called on the world for help to defend itself. The other Christians countries fought the invading Muslims and freed that country, what is possibly wrong with that?

Oh yes the spanish inquisition, once again a little bit of research would have held you in good stead. The inquisition was ran by the Spanish monarchy NOT the Church. It was purely a political inquisition.

Please don't spread lies, a little bit of research would help.

Comment by Tom Craven
on A Rebuttal To the Arguments Against Socialism

May 14th 2008 11:10
There has only even been one kind of socialism enforced in the history of the world, what other 'tested' kind of socialism were you referring to?

Comment by Tom Craven
on 60 Years of Israel

May 14th 2008 10:09
60 Years since the first invasion of Israel by violent Arabic Nations.

50 Years since the king of Jordan vowed to 'wipe Israel off the face off the earth'

40 years since another invasion of Israel by the entire Arabic alliance which was defeated by Israel.

30 years since another invasion attempt

I don't agree with everything Israel does, but think about it. The Palestinian's invaded Israel in the first place, in 1948 we had a 2 state solution but the Palestinian's and their allies destroyed it by invading Israel, they tried to invaded Israel another 3 times and if they could do it today they would. We sympathize with the Palestinian's but there not blameless.