Nonymous

Sydney, New South Wales, AUSTRALIA


Joined August 14th 2006

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About Me
Some of my other writing: used to have a diary, for years, at http://kenm.mydeardiary.com/; also have a few longer pieces at http://www.philorum.org/.

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Writing style

November 13th 2009 00:53
Dear PR,

It's difficult to tell you why I write in the way that I write. Everyone's words are shaped by their genes and personalities, and by their experiences -- the books they read, the TV they watch, the people they hang out with, the teachers that have shouted at them... All these things leave a mark. So I'm skeptical you'd be able to mimic me precisely. And I doubt there's a good reason for wanting to mimic me -- there's nothing valuable or out-of-the-ordinary in my style (or lack thereof).

But there have been things that I've told myself -- because there have been times when I've consciously tried to write in this or that way (just as there have been times when I've intentionally changed my handwriting -- a "7" with a stroke through the middle looks much more interesting to me than a "7" without).

Here's nine of them.

***

1. Try to capture the way you pre-reflectively speak -- the natural sounds and ryhthms, the natural progression of thought.

I remember this idea being liberating when I first encountered it: -- Don't worry about style, and don't tortuously try to analyze and copy other people. Instead, let yourself speak as you speak -- then write it all down. Work out the best way to use punctuation to transcribe yourself accurately.

Everyone has verbal mannerisms, linguistic quirks, vocal tics. Everyone has a distinctive style, though they might not realize it.

2. Aim for clarity of effect.

In acting, it's sometimes considered a virtue for "actions" to be unambiguous and specific, and I suppose I adopt a similar value in writing.

I delete a lot. If I can function without an extra word, I'll likely make the choice to crop it. If it doesn't add, it probably detracts. I prefer deserts to lush gardens.

Brevity is often the result, but not always, because clear communication sometimes requires more rather than fewer words, and because communication isn't the be-all and end-all.

You see, there's at least two clarities to aim for.

On the one hand, you can write for clarity of meaning.

On the other hand, you can write for clarity of "effect", which includes a hundred things -- mood, emotion, sound and musicality, suggested thoughts, progression of thought... There's question-and-answer patterns in the course of a sentence. There's suspense as you await grammatical completion. There's teasing. There's mental engagement.

I once spoke of searching for a key to fit many locks.

I try to create exactly what I want, neither more nor less (and I almost always fail).

3. Be sensitive to effect.

Ask yourself, for instance, what the difference is between saying a thing one way, and saying it another.

There's always a difference.

What difference does it make to lose a comma.

4. Keep polishing.

I read and reread.

Don't lie to yourself. Don't sweep anything under the carpet.

If there's an itch, scratch it. You'll often be surprised what you find.

This is not a case of being endlessly critical: when there are no more itches, you should stop scratching.

A danger, though, that I frequently succumb to is mannered overpolish and lack of spontaneity.

5. Brainstorm first, reason after.

Get it all down first, in bits and pieces, and only afterwards try to make sense of it. Don't polish and build before your brainstorming is complete.

After the initial period of free association, ideas will continue to occur to you. So be sure to grab those additional ideas before they escape, and mix them into your piece as it develops.

Composers often work this way.

There will always be a war in you between chaos and control, freedom and technique, spontaneity and polish, instinct and culture, consciousness and unconsciousness.

There is also a conflict between self and community. I pray for moments when the language itself takes over. It's boring to know exactly where you're going.

In creative collaboration, two people can dream up something that neither of them, individually, would have been capable of. But even when you're the sole creator, there is a dialogue between past and future self, and between the words in your head and the words on the page.

6. Be attentive to, sensitive to, and judgmental of words generally. Be particular and pedantic.

If you don't practise continuously, how would you learn?

7. Always carry a notepad and a pencil (pens sometimes leak).

8. Proceed from real life.

I find invention difficult: it's much easier, and produces better results, to describe what's already there.

Reality is always more complex, satisfying, and surprising.

The same seems true of other arts. In cinematography, you may find that some of your best shots, and some of the best lighting effects, can come from documentary, from perspectives you chance upon. Whereas, when you try to plan something -- "Put the 1000W fresnel here with a diffusion filter, put the 500W over there" -- sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

When you try to invent, you're often led back to the already-written -- you make copies of copies -- you journey towards cliche and sentimentality.

9. Proceed from the already-written. Use cliche when it's appropriate. Study the works of masters. Memorize passages you like.

Of course, "9" contradicts "8".

***

A final thought: all the above are personal preferences. They're my aesthetics for my own writing. All the "Do this" and "Don't do that" are addressed to myself.

I value different things in other people's writings, and I don't believe there is a best way to write.



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The acting schools

October 25th 2009 23:37
The first school is kindergarten and playtime. They teachers are gentle, and acting is more game than art.

The students never see into the depths of it, but they never lose the love of it.

***

The second school is a dancing school.

To their surprise, the graduates of the school discover that acting comes naturally to them.

They move beautifully, firstly.

But there is much more -- they have "stage presence", whatever this means, they are magnetically watchable, and their performances are expressive and full of physical life.

***

At the third school, the students are trained in reactivity, which is one of the most important things for an actor to learn. Their performances are praiseworthy, certainly, for the action and the emotion are authentic -- embarrassment is real embarrassment, threatening is real threatening, begging is real begging... -- And, so the thinking goes, surely there is nothing more real than real.

Of course, many do speak in disparagement. For that one skill, reactivity, is now taught in isolation, whereas the school's founder had envisaged a fuller curriculum -- voice, movement, dance. There is a sense in which students of the school are separated from all other aspects of a scene, and are insensitive to the flow of creativity generally.

A critic might claim:

-- The one skill has been taught to the detriment of others. The students never learn relaxation, justification, concentration... Nor are they taught the nitty gritty of working with stages or with cameras.
-- In particular, they are weak on character. The students respond naturally, yes, but wherever they go, they find themselves.
-- The training unlocks a degree of instinct -- it removes blocks -- it peels back society's mask of politeness and restraint -- it is liberating in this sense. But is "negative liberty" sufficient? Do students ever attain the expressivity of dancers? Do they ever unlock their behaviour?
-- In reliance on unconstrained reactivity, the style is found to suit particular styles, roles, texts. The teachers never realize, for instance, that lies can lie closer to truth -- that beyond naturalism there is a world of symbolism and expressivism -- and that beyond the psychology of the individual are the voices of cultures and species...

***

The fourth school is a ragtag collection of comedians and improvisers.

They have a joy and a roughness, and their thoughts are fast, and their imaginations are fertile.

A surprising number of them go on to be wonderful actors, attuned to audiences, awake to the shapes of roles, clear about what beats are required when, and aware of what it means to commit to a moment.

They have method of sorts, and they have physical life and interest, but usually they lack the depth, discipline, and flexibility of other schools.

Most of them never become actors, becoming confused as to the difference between real and theatrical, and living more in their heads than in their bodies.

***

The fifth school is widely acclaimed. The actors have method and experience and have been through the trenches. They are taught and prepared for many things, and they give of themselves to an astonishing degree. They are wonderful emotionalizers, and this pleases audiences.

The training does transform them.

But quiet voices speak of the occasional selfishness of the actors, their lack of connection to their acting partners, and the flatness of many productions.

***

A similar school, the sixth, is controversial.

Truthfulness is pursued fanatically, and many former students of the school are justly acclaimed. They graduate equipped with definite new abilities.

Among the many criticisms of the school, it is pointed out that students can be locked into themselves and selfish, can be quick to escalate to emotional extremes, and are sometimes traumatized by the training.

The system is found particularly to suit certain characters and genres.

***

The seventh, rival, school is brilliant in character. Research and preparation are emphasised; students are told they must earn the right to play each role, and they search for the life of each role. They are equipped to analyze scripts and scenes. And there is a sense in which the process is "organic",and unseparated from life generally.

Somewhat paradoxically, no specific skills are learnt, and no detailed method is taught. The school doesn't isolate and develop particular abilities. The training has as much intensity as other schools, but lacks their systematization and rigour.

It is reliant, say some, on the skills of the teacher, but perhaps the same could be said of most of the schools...

***

The final school is the oldest. It has many surprising qualities that, on reflection, are understandable -- it is more open than expected to different approaches and dramatic genres, it is more practical than one would expect, tied to nitty gritties of stage and real life, there is much in it that lacks explanation and systematization, and there is sometimes the sense, oddly, that modern science has passed it by.

At the same time, the methods it does teach are more detailed than expected.

Its scope is impressive, but its openness cannot be sustained. The overall impression is of a river, about to divide, and required to divide, into many tributaries.



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On acting and the alphabet

October 20th 2009 23:06
Scattered and hastily written...

***

* Most actors think in terms of "actions" -- to implore, to threaten, to comfort, etc. I don't know if I could define what an action is, but they're usually to do with some change that you're trying to effect in your acting partner.

* Even monologues are often treated this way. I remember a teacher saying to me that monologues should never be to no one -- they're to God, or yourself, or the world at large, but they're never to no one.

Many actors will have an imagined addressee that they're reacting off; and the words of the addressee are probably playing in their heads.

* Acting is more about the behaviour than the words, so goes the customary thinking. The writer gives you the words -- it's your job to bring them to life.

It's sometimes said: a viewer should be able to set the TV volume to mute, and still tell what's happening in a scene.

***

* So, after some acting training, most actors arrive at this situation: they can bring life to any text, and it doesn't matter what's written. Any half-decent actor can take the alphabet and use it for any action -- you simply overlay the words, regardless of what they are.

To threaten -- "A! B!! C!!!"... To question -- "D? EF?"... To tell off -- "G! HIJKLM. NOPQ!"...

* But there are more things you can bring to a text than action. For instance:

-- The reality of place. When you speak the words, are you alive in an environment, do you react to it? You're supposed to be on a ocean cliff -- well, do you feel the wind blowing on your cheek, do you smell the brine, do you hear the waves...

-- Are you connected to the words, or are they just words, as for a newsreader? Might you as well be speaking the alphabet?

* What does it mean to be "connected" to words? Well, I suppose this would include:

-- Connection in terms of character. This could be a very crude thing -- for instance, someone's appearance might not match their words -- a five-year-old pretending to be a quantum physics lecturer -- the "package doesn't fit". Or it could be a more subtle thing -- the particular drawl with which someone speaks making what comes from their mouth surprising.

I suppose "connection" here would embrace all the things that actors work on when they speak of character. And I guess I'm saying that, for dramatic purposes, it's often better than there be a smooth fit rather than a mismatch between character expectations and text -- even though in real life we're surprised all the time...

-- Connection in terms of emotion. I've said this before, but most words carry some sort of charge -- "Holocaust", "sex", "murder", "God", your own name, the names of something sacred or personal or loved... In real life, when we say such words, our behaviour is changed in the speaking. We say words with tenderness, with awkwardness, with hate...

-- Connection in terms of meaning. Does the person really understand what they're saying? This category might include the way that words relate to one another, the variations of duration and pause and intonation in the course of a sentence as someone, in real life, tries to express themselves.


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Test

October 18th 2009 13:06
Haven't posted in two months, so just a test to check that the account is still working.

Will write something new soonish.
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Enron's new clothes

August 20th 2009 07:02
Found this quote recently (Bethany McLean and Peter Elkind, The Smartest Guys in the Room, 2004, p 233): --

What if an analyst tried to get beyond Enron's pat explanation of its business? Executives would imply that they were slow and stupid, and most of the other analysts would agree with that assessment


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Productive chaos

August 19th 2009 05:23
People often say of God that he/she/it is a filler explanation. God is a case of putting a label on and personifying your ignorance. You don't know why there's thunder and lightning? Well, "Thor is responsible".

Creationist accounts that speak of inexplicable jumps in the fossil record are similarly saying that such matters are mysterious, and will always be mysterious, and there's no point investigating


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Small and large audiences

August 18th 2009 05:10
Some actors perform better with the camera off, or when there's either no audience or only a small crew -- there's less pressure. Robert Rodriguez thinks this worked for him in "El Mariachi".

The technique is obviously useful for intimate scenes: Kubrick reduced the crew number for the "If you only knew" scene in "Eyes Wide Shut
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Actors with different needs

August 17th 2009 05:06
In a nutshell: different strokes for different folk. Obviously one size don't fit all. Neither one acting school, nor one acting method.

***

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Markers of emotion

August 16th 2009 04:39
Heard this one from a lady at the Ensemble Theatre. I've always thought it was useful to remember.

Three indications of genuine (as opposed to indicated) emotion


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In late, out early

August 15th 2009 04:20
I think the best thing that writing teacher in this film course has taught me is "Get in late, get out early". I'd never heard the expression before.

There's different ways to interpret this, but I guess I essentially see it as instruction about temporal framing. Given an event that would usually be depicted as running from A to Z, you the writer have a choice as to how much or how little of that time period to include -- and, arguably, it's more interesting to go from B to Y than A to Z. You could think of it as starting a scene leaving the beginning of it implied (then the audience has to do a little work to catch up), and exiting the scene before its natural end (leaving the audience in suspense, or making them do a little thinking to work out what happens next). Either way, you're engaging them


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Recent Comments

Comment by Nonymous
on About lying to murderers (Immanuel Kant)

September 19th 2009 23:15
I think there's different possible readings, but yours is a fair one.

[quote]Then in a Dexteresque way, wouldn't the murder of your friend be in service to the greater good?[quote]

Traditionally, Kantianism is opposed to moralities like utilitarianism -- it's considered a classic case of deontological, duty-based morality -- moralities where the right thing to do is the right thing to do, and consequences don't matter. Christian ethics is arguably also deontological. Eg if God tells you to kill your son, then, Abraham, the right thing to do is to kill your son, regardless of what human or heavenly good or bad it brings.

It should be mentioned that some people (like JS Mill) do try to argue that Kant is in fact consequentialist, not deontological. Kant's practical workings-out of his morality do seem, at least on the face of them, to involve consequentialist considerations.

Comment by Nonymous
on Film course

August 13th 2009 01:32
Firstly, about who plays what role... Apart from the first year, the entire class has worked on the same film. Obviously, everyone wants to be director . A couple of months into the course there's an audition -- you stand up in front of the class, and deliver a speech, and answer questions as to why you should be given any position that you're going for -- producer, director, cinematographer...

As for what story... Well, at the start of the year we all pitched different stories, and then took a vote. From there, it gets complicated -- different years have done things differently. Group writing in general is a tricky thing, and easily becomes a case of too many cooks.

Basically, anyone can be on the writing team who wants to be, but a month or two in, you have to make a choice -- writing classes are held at the same time as other classes.

In our year, to be perfectly honest, the writing teacher has been responsible for most of the story, because he has a twofold task: he's supposed to teach us, and there has to be a result, since everything depends on script.

We didn't start this way, but we've slipped into a process of working out the story beats during class (brainstorming, and then having the teacher decide what happens next). I personally have a lot of issues with this method. For instance, I'd argue that groups never produce unity of composition, and that trying to brainstorm and get agreement like this doesn't allow room for thinking carefully about a problem. I'd much rather that the courses were structured as workshops, that individual people could produce their own scripts, and that, three or four months into the course, we simply took a vote on which script to use.

Comment by Nonymous
on More on compulsory voting

August 2nd 2009 10:31
To be honest, I'm not sure there's more than one basic reason. And that one reason is this idea in countries where voting exists (you could call it a value, a belief, an ideal) that people should be able to run their own lives.

Not all peoples of all places and times have held this belief. For instance, there doesn't seem anything crazy in believing that the individual doesn't matter, and only the community matters; or in believing that individuals shouldn't run their lives because most people are stupid and don't know what's good for them; or in believing that a religion or a God should run our lives, and not us.

But if you believe that running your own life is a good thing, then voting is supposed to be one way to achieve that. (Though the argument might get more complex here, because you might have a discussion about why we need governments at all, and why one form of government is preferable to another -- why a representative democracy instead of a full-participatory democracy, or a monarchy, or an oligarchy, or communes, or whatever else...).

So I think there's probably only one basic reason ("self-determination") why voting is a good thing and why indiivduals would want to vote...

There may be minor secondary reasons apart from self-determination. For example:

1. If you already live in a culture where there's voting, then you might want to vote because you care about specific issues. You might want certain things to happen, or you might want certain things not to happen.

2. If you already believe that a representative democracy is a good thing, then the phenomenon known as "voter apathy", where people don't give a shit about politics, is a bad thing, for lots of reasons. Basically, it leads to the breakdown of representative democracy.

For example, say that 99% of people don't vote. Then members of parliament/congress would be elected by just 1% of the population, and there wouldn't be as much legitimacy to their power. It's harder for them to say that they represent people's desires.

3. If you already live in a culture where voting exists, then having a vote is political participation in that culture, and political participation is arguably a good thing from a number of points of view.

From a community level, having everyone interested in voting creates more cohesion in the community, and would mean that the politics of the country are richer and more vibrant.

From an individual level, it's possible to argue that being political is good for you. For one thing, if you're not concerned with politics, then you're giving up your say in a lot of issues that affect you. For another thing, there's a more abstract line of thinking to do with "the good life" (ie, theories about what's good in life, what the purpose of life should be, how the best possible life would go, etc).

For example, you could argue that there's something fucked up about a person living completey by themselves. If you spend 20 years by yourself, you go a little off. So, it's common sense to think that you need to be part of a community to be a whole person. But maybe to be fully engaged with a community, you have to care what happens to that community, and politics is the realm that deals with what happens to a community as a whole. So, the argument might go, unless you're political, you're not living a full life. Hannah Arendt makes this sort of argument, and she takes inspiration from Greek philosophy.

Comment by Nonymous
on Story structure?

July 27th 2009 23:43
Hey Morgan, I think boundaries are usually good things... otherwise you get overwhelmed by the number of possibilities. Maybe you could use a self-imposed boundary. For instance, you could tell yourself, "This will be no longer than 120 pages" or "This will all be written in the first person"...

How to structure a story? I really don't know. If you figure out a good way, tell me! I think anything could be a seed of a story -- an image, a bit of dialogue, an emotion... and then you get ideas for particular things it would be good to put into the story -- particular scenes or moments... But how to take those bits and pieces and shape them into a dramatically powerful form?...

Knowing where you're going can help -- if you have a particular ending in mind, or a particular feeling at the end. You can work retrospectively and figure out what you need to get to that point...

I was at a screenwriting lecture recently, given by some Hollywood production manager guy. His words of wisdom might or might not be useful to you... Goes something like this.

1. Write a title.
2. Write, in one sentence, the theme of the story. "Men and women can never be friends", "Vengence never tastes as sweet as you think it will", or whatever. When you're stuck in the course of writing, write down the theme, and see if that shakes anything lose.
3. Every film should have 5 uh-ohs, 5 oh shits, and 1 oh my god. Make a list of these.
4. Every movie has 3 acts, and 40-60 scenes. Take a piece of paper, write down the numbers 1 to 40 on the side, and specify what happens in each scene. Think about it as a jigsaw puzzle. Start with the beginning and the ending.
5. Copyright the story outline, and register it with the writers' guild.
6. Give the outline to a writer who wants to break into movies. Pay him/her $500 a week. Give him/her 1 month to produce a first draft, then two weeks to produce a second draft.

***

Norm --

Character and fate? I don't know what the Greeks meant by that comment, and I think it's a topic I'm ill-equipped to talk meaningfully about...

My kneejerk reaction is that not all stories have destiny as a prominent theme, and when I think about character, I think of stuff like gender, appearance, family history, psychology, and the choices he/she makes in the course of a story -- so, not just fate...

But maybe there's a sense in which a character's purpose, or what ultimately befalls a character, is somehow definitive of that character. Or maybe many good stories have characters with clear competing desires, and these put them on an fated trajectory...

I don't know. I'm sure there's some deep relationship between fate and character, but I can't articulate it.

Comment by Nonymous
on Pushing intuitive ethical buttons...

July 27th 2009 23:12
The way I'm reading this, what you're doing is redefining the parameters of the hypothetical, rather than facing the hypothetical. I think Thompson's fiddler story takes it for granted that transfer to dialysis isn't possible. The story doesn't go into the reasons why dialysis isn't possible; it simply stipulates that it's not. It's asking, "If (for whatever reason) staying connected to the fiddler or disconnecting were the only options, what would it be morally permissible for you to do?"

Another way to put this: -- Thomson is saying, "Consider scenario A, where these are the only options." And I think you're responding, "I don't want to consider scenario A. I want to consider scenario B, where there are more options."

I'm not saying, of course, that fiddler and abortion aren't distinguishable.

For instance: maybe it's the case that we have stronger moral duties towards children than adults, and to family than strangers; so if we woke up attached to an infant fiddler whom we were related to, then we'd be morally obliged to stay connected.

Or maybe pregnancy is simply a special case. So, for instance, if someone took their basic moral principles from a religion, they might scan down the list of commandments in that religion and see the prohibition "Thou shalt not abort a child". In which case, the fiddler and abortion scenarios would not be distinguishable, except for the fact of the prohibition.

So, assuming one wants to play the game of "consider scenario A" in the first place, I think there's all sorts of possibilities for distinguishing the two cases, depending on what moral beliefs you start with, but I'm not sure that dialysis machines is one of these possibilities.

Comment by Nonymous
on Pushing intuitive ethical buttons...

July 27th 2009 02:43
Hey BigCountry,

Something I have to ask about (and please understand that I'm not pushing any belief on you by asking this question, neither pro nor anti-abortion) -- how is the sci-fi fiddler example relevantly different from an abortion example?

In the fiddler example, you wake up attached to another lifeform, and you have to stay connected for 9 months for that lifeform to survive.

In an abortion case, you wake up one morning attached to another lifeform, and you have to stay connected for 9 months for that lifeform to survive.

Comment by Nonymous
on About lying to murderers (Immanuel Kant)

July 27th 2009 00:31
Big Country and D -- you guys have put your fingers on what's (arguably) wrong with thought experiments. It's simply stipulated, for the purposes of the problem, that the only options are lie or don't lie, and one is asked to answer based on one's moral beliefs. Other thought experiments will not ask you to reason through your beliefs, but to use your intuition or gut instincts about right and wrong. The real life conditions as to how it comes about that the options you're presented with are the only options are not given. I've actually written a post on this sort of issue.

Could one simply tell the murderer to piss off? Well, in the thought experiment, it's somehow assumed that one can't. In real life, whether you can or can't would depend on any number of factors. Is this WWII, and the murderer is a Nazi officer with a group of SS agents behind him? If you tell him to piss off, he'll break the door down and shoot you, then search your house anyway. Or is the murderer a vengeful 5-year-old, who won't be able to succeed in murdering your friend even if you escort her to where your friend is standing? Simply stipulating that you can't tell the murderer to piss off sidesteps all the ifs, depends ons, and maybes.

I think the situation is comparable to empirical experiments. A high school maths teacher might give you a problem about whether you should bet on horse 1 or horse 2, given their starting speed, accelerations, and the length of the track. In real life you might say, "I'll go up to the horses before the race, cripple one, and inject steroids in the other." Or you might say: "I don't believe in gambling. I'm not betting." But for the purposes of the question, it's simply assumed that these options aren't options.

So, in real life, everything depends on the details, whereas thought experiments are supposed to be simplified.

But do they oversimplify, to the point where they're no longer of use at all? Well, I'm not sure... Another question for another time.

Even though Matthew Johns committed no crime

I've been following news on this case as well. The main thing that interests me is the notion of consent.

Three issues: --

1. How do you evaluate consent (legally or morally speaking)? And how black-and-white was this case?

Legally, Johns was cleared.

But in contract law (for instance), if you enter into an agreement while you're drunk, on drugs, or temporarily insane, that might invalidate the contract.

If there was a lot of alcohol involved in the Matt Johns incident, surely this is grey areas, and evaluation of consent is going to be messy?

2. Putting aside legality, is Johns morally in the clear? What counts as "consent" in a moral (rather than legal) sense?

If the moral conception is different from the legal conception, should the legal concept be modified to better reflect the everyday understanding?

Early writers on liberty and freedom talked about situations in which people were not free, and they included not only obvious restrictions on freedom (for instance, when you're a chained slave), but various "seductions" and "coercions of the will". So if someone threatens you or fast talks you, then in a sense you haven't acted freely.

In the Four Corners report, Clare talked about psychological presure. And I think, regardless of whether you believe her or not, everyone can sympathize with being pressured into doing something you didn't really want to do.

3. Even if you haven't committed a crime, and even if there was consent, is what you're doing moral? Is everything that happens between two consenting adults moral?

Many people seem to hold the view that, in general, you're responsible for damage you cause. Take the situation where you're playing cricket in your backyard, and you knock a ball through a neighbour's glass window. It was an accident -- you didn't intend the damage, and it might not even have been foreseeable -- but morally and legally the neighbour still has a claim against you.

So if Clare has suffered damage from the 2002 incident, are the players responsible for that, regardless of consent? Or does consent free them of any responsibility?

Random post.

(Forgive this random post. For some reason, I've been receiving literally hundreds of e-mail notifications of replies to this post over the past few months. Just trying to deactivate the "notify me of replies" function.)

Comment by Nonymous
on Theories of self-interest (Derek Parfit)

September 25th 2008 13:09
- Can we add to the good life theories 'experience in itself', without mentioning any qualitative attributes?

That does seem to be a common idea. People say, "At least it was an experience", they value novel experience, and they wax lyrical about the lows as well as the highs. Sometimes it's as if sheer accumulation of variety of experience is a good.

I think this would come under the catch-all label "objective list" theory. That is, it's one item among many that one might suggest is a component of the good life.

- Can we ignore experience altogether and just talk about the good life as good reflections on life, whether I had my desires fulfilled or not, whether or not I had more pleasure than pain?

Well, you're implicitly raising the question of one's reasons for thinking that this or that is "the good life". How does anyone know what the good life is...?

Can we talk about the good life as reflections on life... Well, possibly. But I'd want to suggest that this would be an unpopular theory. Among other things, why should everything hang on one's deathbed attitude (if this is what you're suggesting)? Shouldn't life be viewed as a whole? Why should those final reflections outweigh all that went before?

- I might have terrible experiences, but upon reflection, I could still stay my life was good, that I wouldn't exchange it for anything.
- I may experience constant pain all my life, but on reflection II wouldn't want you to kill me and have the 'negative pleasure' of death. (Quite absurd to talk of death as 'negative pleasure', I know).

One note to add is that you may be talking about when it's better to have lived than not to have lived at all.

Such a life might be a minimally good life (with "good" meaning "better than nothing"), but it's a different thing from "the good life", which is a sort of ideal, best possible life.