Gay Marriage
October 21st 2007 08:57
We were talking about it in CCD. (AKA the dumbest idea ever!) Everyone says that being gay is wrong. But is it really? Isn't love supposed to exist no matter where or who you find it in? I personally think that if your gay and your have a nice personality, then your absolutely fine in my book. Then they said that it was against god's will or something like that. But god never said, "Thou shall not be gay nor like anyone of the same gender." He 'said' that we're supposed to love eachother no matter what. So if we 'hate' gay people, then aren't we disobeying his 'rules'? I would really like to know your opinions, and I hope that you comment.
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Comment by Ahmed
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Therein lies the issue at hand, with Christianity (I think so anyway) god has said something to the effect of 'Thou shall not be gay nor like anyone of the same gender' he's also said 'we're supposed to love eachother no matter what' (or something to that effect
The problem is the issue of fundamentalism, these types of people who want to deny gay rights citing such and such religious quote are in fact religous fundamentalists. They in reality want everyone to be just like them (be of the same religion/beliefs) and will try to pretend that their bigotted opinions have some sort of justification (such as 'gays are unnatural', 'muslims don't want to integrate', goes on and on).
As far as I'm concerned gays can get married if they want, though it isn't the obligation of any church or religion to accept such a marriage, likewise it isn't up to a church or religion to deny someone else be in such a marriage.
You don't like the idea of homosexuals being married then don't accept their marriage as 'holy' or whatever else. That doesn't mean you should try and deny them that right under a different religion, church or institution.
Comment by Max Ride
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Comment by Mountain Fog
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QUOTE ME NO QUOTES!
Well...I MUST agree, of course, and I am glad to see I am not alone in this attitude. There are, however, some in this site who would vehemently disagree and at the same time try and hide their bigotry behind a wall of.."oh I'm not a bigot, its just what my 'God' said.."...yeah right!
The problem with the Bible has been its interpretation, which has, through the ages, been 'adjusted' to fit in with social political ends, and then there is the original interpretation of the actual language to start with.
I can NEVER understand people who proclaim to be a "God fearing", "religious", "peace loving", "good Christian"...or good whatever faith they may be, and then sprout the most hateful, blatant, bigoted, tripe ever spewed from an ignorant mouth.
Remember, if anyone has a problem with someone else, what about, "forgiveness"?
Don't see too many people, Christian or otherwise, turning the other cheek, or putting the ethics of their religion, particularly Christianity, to good use, particularly when it comes to politics.
"God" didn't hate homosexuals, he made them!
And, if you look at the entertainment industry, thank GOD He did!! Otherwise we would be entertained by fundamentalists...which from memory, collectively or singly, do not have a great sense of humour!
One bit of advice...I'd steer clear of people who try to use religion to deliver their own twisted agendas...but that is just me!
cheers
fog
Comment by Michaelie
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I could talk about this all day. In fact, I probably have, several times. GAY PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO GET MARRIED!!! Gay people should have every opportunity anyone else has, there is absolutely no question in my mind. In fact, it just seems so obvious to me that I sometimes find it hard to think about it coherently! But I shall try, lol.
There are several things that make this difficult in society, to my way of thinking:
- Naturalisation of gender and sexuality.
Our way of thinking is so immersed in gender norms, from the time that we are born, that anything outside those boundaries and 'expectations' can seem alien, and to some people 'wrong'. I know that my grandmother does not approve of many things that I do, because they are not fitting of a 'woman', only a man.
One of the expectations of both genders, is that you will have sexual desire for someone of the opposite sex only. Anything else then becomes 'unnatural', because heterosexual desire is seen as the 'normal' way.
There is no reason why men and women should be seen to be naturally a certain way. It is merely a standard imposed by society, the same as white supremacy dominates the Western world.
Therefore, the law should reflect true equality between people, and recognise gay unions, (and transsexualism - people shouldn't have to be confined to a choice of two genders if they don't want to but should be able to transcend the labels we have created).
- Religion
Religion has in the past been a strong motivator for how we regard people - and not always (I would say seldom) a open and compassionate one. I was raised to be Christian, in a apathetic kind of way, but I regard myself as atheist. I cannot believe in an organised religion that condemns people based on their sexuality - or condemns people because of their gender (suffer for Eve's sins, my a***).
It's true that interpretations of the Bible over the years have been shifted over and over, and will no doubt continue to do so, but the text did not start out all-embracing to begin with. After all, it was written by men, fallible as anyone, based on the beliefs of their society at their time, several thousand years ago. Even if God does exist and people saw things happen, etc, etc, you can hardly expect a true accounting, untouched by the biases and prejudices of human beings.
So, if I were gay, I would not want to be married by the church with the chuch's history of beliefs - look at all that organised religion has been responsible for in the past, from Ireland to Iraq. As a heterosexual I can't even be married by the church with a clear conscience, pretty as many churches are. I would feel like a hypocrite.
But if gay people DO want to have their union recognised by the church... that's a difficult situation, one I don't understand, really.
SO IN SUMMARY. I believe in gay marriage. Sorry for the long comment - this is the longest comment I've ever made!
Michaelie
Comment by Ahmed
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They have no right to force a church to accept their marriage just like a church should have no right to deny them the right to be married under the laws of their country.
Comment by Michaelie
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I meant that if they still want to have the church recognise their union, it's tricky, because I don't see what they can really do about that. I don't get it because I don't understand personally why they would want to have their union recognised by an organisation that historically, and presently, doesn't believe in their love.
It's only the law that I think should recognise them. I was just pointing out how religion often shapes the opinions of society, and therefore the law.
Michaelie
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Comment by Louie
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This topic is a huge can of worms. In my books it comes down to respect: We all need to respect each others beliefs.
you should spare a thought for all the Religious Gay people out there who have to deal with hating themselves for something they can do nothing about; because their Church does not accept them. Trust me a lot of Gay people would do anything to be "normal" and spend years struggling to accept themselves...just stop for a moment and think how much that would suck....They don't want to be married per se they just want to be accepted.
Comment by Australian Fashionista
This is a VERY interesting comment on this issue - and brings about a question.
Being that the Christian community (generally - apologies to whom this doesn't apply) does not accept homosexuality whatsoever, how can they be expected to accept Gay Marriage?
What I do object to is the Australian (or other) Government rejecting the notion of Gay Marriage in society. Homosexuals definately DESERVE the RIGHT to have their loving partnership recognised by society and law - as much as that of a heterosexual marriage.
Hopefully as time goes on we will have more modern thinking politians and this will be the case.
Thanks.
Comment by AmyHuang
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It's like telling a dog he must be a cat to fit in.
Comment by Brenton
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God can control what's God's. But where marriage exists independent of religous philosophy, it's up to Ceaser to make the choice to treat peiople correctly.
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Comment by Michaelie
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It is a difficult situation as even though couples may have been living together for many years, their rights are (once again) taken away.
This is why I believe the government should formally recognise their union.
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Comment by Mountain Fog
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QUOTE ME NO QUOTES!
I've been pondering upon the question of WHY do many of the gay community want to be married in a church ceremony.
I believe it is because of a number of reasons, like all things, firstly, it is a final statement of acceptance by an institution that they grew up in, and who have marginalised them, it is a kind of victory over ignorance, if you will.
Secondly, on a more fascile and "campy" view, many gyas LOVE a great costume and dressing up and ceremony and all that guff.
Personally, if I was ever to get 'married", I'd want to start the First Rainbow Church of Australia, then we could all REALLY dress up in ornate historical costumes, chant and wail and throw petals of rare orchids, and be carried to the altar on a golden platter by burly weightlifters in tight fitting snake skin jump suits!
Wadddyathink? A goer?
cheers
fog
P.S. And instead of incense, Channel Number 5!
Comment by Michaelie
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I'll be your groomsmaid.
Michaelie