A Word to the Wise About Using Bible Quotes to Make Your Point.
March 28th 2008 01:58
but, just a quick post in response to the ongoing Controversial Christian Conversations (CCC) on orble from time to time …and further, in particular response to Raven’s blog on said same subject about 'Scripture Quoting Arrogance' <<here>> I was reminded of, and thought I would share, (at the risk of being stoned perhps, or shot or stabbed in a 'crime of passion' - but none-the-less) another Extra-Ordinary moment in my life ... to add perhaps, another aspect to the controversy, over this controversy, itself?
The point is this: One afternoon, bored with playing guitars and our fingers sore from 'strummin’ n’ drummin’ and Didgeridoo playin’ … and having consumed a few good bottles of wine between us, we decided to get the Bible out (well a few Bible’s, from my collection of different versions) ... and play a game with them .. purely because someone had mentioned, the Jehovah's on the doorstep...*rolling eyes* and actually swore, saying; "F*CK I hate it when they come to the door and use Bible quotes to push their point of view."
Between us that day, (just off the top of my head) were a couple school teachers, an academic or two, a musician/song writer, an artist, professional belly dancer, one nurse and one scientist, a psychiatrist, a dance therapist and an engineer; a writer or two, and perhaps even a 'professional' drunk or two, too ... ((laughs)) from quite a few ethnic backgrounds ...
Anyewhoo... the game was to make up some outrageous claim about morality and then find a passage or verse in the bible (particularly the old Testament, but not ruling out the New one), which could support that claim in some way, (or in any way when taken out of context) and especially when 'creatively interpreted' ... well, you can imagine the rest?
…it wasn't only our fingers that were sore that day, but our sides from laughing too, but we all learned so much that has stayed with us all these years ..
The conclusion?
Don't know, You’ll have to read it a lot, or try it for yourself sometime . . .
Some trivia : You Know : Sir Isaac Newton recognised gravity second, his first passion was that he believed there was a code hidden within the bible and spent his life trying to find it, but wasn’t allowed to talk about it much. Michael Drosnin, however, did and amazed us with his 'explanation' in his 'Bible Code' trilogy... when we meet the Jewish man who did crack the code using computers, based on Newtons preliminary findings all those years ago ... something, the Jewish man said 'the code itself was waiting for' (?) I can't remember now it was soooo many books and bottles of wine ago... you'll have to read it for yourself and make up your own mind.
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Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
"Find me twelve words of good and nobel men and I will find twelve reason why they should all be hanged."
I have forgotten who said that but I try to keep it in mind when I read rhetoric.
You can put the meaning you want on any document. I have done my damage I shall move on.
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
On 'John Saffran Versus God' he does the Bible code. He ended up proving that the US constitution predicted the fall of Vanilla Ice.
Basically he and another guy proved if you are looking for anything, you can find anything, using the bible code method. If you are having trouble hunting down a copy of his box set I might be able to help out? (pm me) Im sure you might get worked up over what he's got to say about Buddah, but really, all religions cop it....and you should see what happens when he goes to visit the KKK! (hes jewish) its not just ranting, he's extremely intelligent and knows the right questions to ask to make people think, really THINK about their beliefs. Of course he's an atheist, so it all comes from that viewpoint, but its VASTLY entertaining....
Comment by Lilla
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An Extra Ordinary Life
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It is Lilla here, not Mis... you may need a break my friend, you have been in the fight for a long time?
However, I like the quote... thank you.
going now to look up the word rhetoric... I keep forgetting what it means...
Thanks for stopping in and commenting.
Lilla ...
Comment by Lilla
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I don't know this book by Saffran Kleo, although it does look interesting in a secular kind of way.
I was talking about something else here, in the three books by Michael Drosnin the Jouranlist who sat in on (Bush, Arafat and the other one) at the advent of rejoining politics and matters of state together with religions - as a matter of urgency... outlining exactly the problem with too much segregation and derision - even atheism, which is another belief system... with what was found in the code itself in a phrophetic way. It was a lot more than the fall of vanilla ice ((laughs)) although to some that would be a catastrophe, wouldn't it?
However, I'll go and google Saffran and have a look, thanks.
Lilla ...
Comment by tlcorbin
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Comment by Lilla
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Thank you for your compliment *blushing a bit now* I don't know about prowess my friend, but I do try to express myself as honestly as possible. I don't always suceed to my satisfaction btw... and certainly not to the satisfaction of my critics it seems *chuckle* but no one is perfect and I was bought up that if you are given a talent, you should use it.
I am also a fan of your open-mindedness and ability to open up the taboo subjects for many and help us move the squares on the Rubiks cube a little further around. Kudos.
Lilla ...
Comment by Morgan Bell
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sometimes it just seems like the bible is a really outdated tax and property law book that we should value as a reminder of our past but not refer to when making decisions in this day and age . . .
thankyou for the interesting post!
Comment by tlcorbin
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I am curious and willing to consider most anything, Lilla, because we'll never get past our collective angst if we live in our private cloister and fail to explore those things we fear most. Knowledge frees us to soar with confidence, confident people interact with more trust and less suspicion; the more of those thinkers floating around, the sooner we can hope for peaceful co-existence on a worldwide basis.
The planet is shrinking daily.
Raven
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Fixed an apologies.
Comment by Nina
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Comment by Lilla
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My pleasure, thanks for the compliment. ..and as always you make a valid statement too.
((laughs)) That is an interesting idea... Since everything you want can be validated using it, I wonder how it would play out if you took it out of the equation altogether, and the Koran, the Kabbalah, the Vedas and Upanishads ... would you have existentialism or would there be enough anarchy to eventually level out to a one-world peace, I wonder?
I think I explored existensialism for a while myself, but I'm not really sure I did and whatever I did read, left me feeling ... so ... empty.
It didn't enlighten me, offer peace or instil joy, nor purpose, that's for sure... and who would guard the morality and morale : perhaps a Platonian Law as in his Republic?
Food for thought indeed.
Lilla ...
Comment by Lilla
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The planet is shrinking daily.
...indeed, but sadly knowledge is lost if it cannot be allowed to perculate into wisdom, through reflection... and this shrinking world does not encourage time out for reflection anymore, for all its knowledge... perhaps that is to come in the next 'age?'
For this one we must contend with people still going to battle to slay thousands and hundreds perhaps to save one child...*slapping forehead*
A joy to have you as a friend (and orble) to explore the edges of realitywith.
Lilla ...
Comment by Lilla
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Sleep well my friend.
Comment by Lilla
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An Extra Ordinary Life
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Lovely to see you!
It was one of the funniest afternoons ... thank God though for the Accordances and Bible Companions, or we could have been there for a week ((laughs)) (jj)...
What was surprising, and why I mentioned the diversity of the 'group,' was the fact that everyone knew so much in their own part of the Bible and some much of all of it. It seemed to me though that those who knew the old testament, only had a rudimentary generic view of the new one, whilst those who could almost recite Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and parts of Acts, only had vague notions of key figures from the old one, like Noah, Moses, Daniel, Solomon, Daniel etc... I have always loved the book of Job, myself and probably could recite it word for word back then...um.. as well as Matthew, Mark, Luke and john.
But it was the Psalms and proverbs that taught much that day, and we noted that the book was added to regularly. Perhaps that is the problem today, we stopped adding to it, especially when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls and Mary, Phillip and Jesus' borther James' testaments...may have offered more pieces to the puzzle of something that is as it is anyway...?
Who knows, I just know that this is a great party game to play if you are bored.
Thanks for stopping by.
Lilla ...
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
I have been spelling it wrong.
It is John Safran
*slaps forehead*
And what I keep referring to is 'John Safran versus God' it was a short tv series on sbs that is now on DVD. He is also on triple J sometimes (do you guys get triple J radio?) with Father Bob, a catholic priest, and they always tackle great issues. They did a series together too, but unfortunately I havnt found a dvd set.
I only just realized I called him an atheist and jewish in almost the same sentence. Ouch. I meant he IS an atheist but the KKK were aware of his jewish heritage.
Comment by Lilla
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That will explain why I wasn;t getting anywhere looking for something meaningful here... and because I have now run out of time before my trip.
I will look into the stuff on DVD, for sure, I can imagine that the debate wold be brilliant between these two.. wow, very informative.
No problems I am really the one who understand with my Heinz 57 variety background, much of it Romy Gypsy, jewish, catholic, stuff.. I can make the connections straight away *giggle* no problems: actually if he is athiest and jewish and catholic all at the same time - even better ((laughs))
Love you and leave you, talk again soon.
Stay well and rest plenty, you earnt it.
Lilla ...
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Comment by Lilla
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Comment by Miswanderlust
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I love this game. I will have to try it with some of my friends. Thanks so much for a Friday night laugh!
Mis
Comment by Lilla
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Comment by Miswanderlust
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Comment by samaritan
Fringe Faith
Christians - thankfully - no longer believe that the bible shows that keeping slaves is okay - and scriptural. But they still use bible verses to support other views. I really long for the day when people have a conversation saying do you remember when Christians used the bible to support the anti-homosexual agenda?
In terms of bible verses, my favourite one is Deutoromy 22:5 which is "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God." I have a pair of men's shoes - I find men's sneakers fit me better than female sneakers. The bible could be used to support the view that I should stop wearing them. But even though I'm a committed Christian, I'm actually quite proud of the fact that my footwear is an abomination.
Samaritan
www.fringefaith.com
Comment by Lilla
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You make perfect examples... and I can only say we live in interesting times.
Perhaps in order to see where it all leads to and what the Bible will be used to "prop" up in future generations to come will be most interesting of all?
Thanks for your thoughtful response.
Lilla ...