1st Question -- Life After Death?
February 21st 2007 15:00
I'm starting my questions in earnest with the biggest and baddest of them all. It's the 1000 lb. gorilla in the room -- the question of what happens to us after we die. The theories range from the wistfully hopeful (I get to see grandma again in heaven!) to the arrogant (I'll go to heaven with God while the unrighteous burn in hell!) to the arduous (I will be reborn in various forms until my karma is sufficient to be united with Brahman) to the extremely bizarre (I will be transported to the spaceship that hides in the tail of Comet Hale-Bopp and live with the aliens).
Let's all assume we agree that most people believe that some variation of the above happens after death. The question is: why? Societies throughout history have believed in an existence after death. Afterlife concepts have grown over millennia, shaped by the cultures in which they thrive. While the details vary greatly ("Reincarnation is ridiculous! Everyone knows that when you die you go to Lollipop Mountain and frolic in the Cotton Candy Fields!"), the basic premise is the same. In fact, tales of an afterlife are a component of nearly every mythology that we have studied.
The details of these afterlives differ tremendously. The afterlife of the Greeks was Hades. Unlike today, where the term Hades has taken on a meaning closer to the Christian concept of Hell, to the Greeks Hades was just a pretty dull, formless space. It wasn't a happy place, but neither was it a place of torment. It was simply where the soul went when someone died. The only exceptions were those who were specially favored by the gods and taken to live at Olympus (such as Hercules). The ancient Egyptians, on the other hand, had a nicer idea of an afterlife, which was essentially like a better version of earth. The only catch was that the soul had to traverse a gauntlet of obstacles to get to it, only to face judgment by Osiris at the end. If the unfortunate soul's life was filled with enough wickedness, it was devoured by the monster Ammut. The Zoroastrians had a similar notion of judgment, and also were one of the first cultures to promote the idea of Hell. It was during the Babylonian captivity that the Jews adopted this notion (prior to this, they were pretty content with a dull idea of the afterlife --see the Greeks). There are an unlistable number of additional competing views, from the Native Americans, to Wiccans, to Vikings.
Today, the dominant viewpoint in the Western world is the Judeo-Christian/Islamic idea of the Abrahamic creator God. This God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Depending on how closely you adhere to a strict set of rules (which varies greatly, not just between Jews, Muslims, and Christians, but between countless factions within these religions), you are either admitted into Heaven forever with God, or cast forever into Hell, where wailing and gnashing of teeth generally ensues. Different script, but same basic story as the rest. At the very least, the central idea is the same: something, some entity generally referred to as the soul, that comprises all that is "you" continues to exist in perpetuity after we die. Since most cultures have believed something along these lines, there must be something to it, right? Well.......no.
Countless cultures have believed lots of things. They have believed that the stars were really people that the gods placed into the heavens after they died. They have believed that the earth was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth. They have been convinced that tiny men lived in seminal fluid, and that women simply served as incubators. Today, in Africa, there are plenty of people who believe that having sex with (or, just as often, raping) a virgin will cure AIDS. Beliefs are funny things. Believing unfounded ideas just because everyone else does too is just not a good practice.
The reality of the situation is that people believe in an afterlife for several reasons. The oldest reasons can be attributed to humanities' earliest attempts to explain the natural world, and to try to define the deep mystery of what happens when life simply stops working. I believe this persists to this very day. For all of our knowledge, the idea of not existing anymore is a very difficult concept to grasp. So difficult, in fact, that it is much easier to imagine an alternate existence after death rather than no existence at all.
Another reason that the idea of the afterlife persists is related to the "meaning of life" argument. To most people, existing for a handful of years and then ceasing to exist is not acceptable. What's the point, they ask? There must be more. It is our tendency to attribute meaning and purpose to everything. Plants are "meant" for eating, wood is "meant" for fuel and building, and so on. If everything here is "meant" for something, it is reasonable for many people to assume that we are also "meant" for something. Of course, the premise is that everything else is meant for our use, while we are meant for a nobler purpose. This is, of course, ridiculous (but this is veering towards a discussion of evolution, and that's for another day).
A very basic reason people believe is our need for reward/punishment. Good deeds, noble acts, selfless gestures -- all of these things are to be rewarded. Evil deeds, spiteful acts, hate and greed -- we desire justice and punishment for those who do such things. Sadly, the reality is that plenty of people do horrible things and never get caught. Awful, stomach-churning atrocities are committed all the time for which no one ever pays. It is a small comfort to imagine that these people will be punished in the next life even if they manage to evade justice in this one.
There are even more reasons than this: desire to be reunited with loved ones, fear of the unknown, even firsthand "near death experience". And yet, while there are enough reasons to keep on listing them for pages, what's lacking is evidence. To the chagrin of those people who trumpet NDE's, feelings very similar to NDE's can be recreated in a lab setting. It is doubtful that a deep mystical experience such as treading the Stairway to Heaven (don't sue me, Led Zep) could be duplicated by men in lab coats. More likely is that the sensation of the NDE is a natural function of an injured or dying brain. (click here for more info). NDE's are, by all accounts, very powerful experiences. I have no trouble understanding how such an event could radically impact views on the existence of an afterlife. But, the fact that the same experience is reproducible in a lab undermines a lot of the "mystical" nature of the experience. NDE's are the best empirical evidence for life-after-death. If so, it's hardly encouraging for the afterlife's existence.
A critical look at the facts, it seems, is not encouraging for the existence of an afterlife. And why should it be? We are organic creatures, with the same life processes as a cat or a hedgehog. No one seems particularly bothered by the question of a hedgehog afterlife, and with good reason. It doesn't fit in with the available evidence. This idea, the thought that our existence is very finite, is disturbing to most people (myself included). But there is another, amazing side to this story. Take the time to consider the events that have transpired to bring you here, reading this. Supernovae explosions generated heavy elements, new stars formed containing these elements, and then more explosions, more stars, planet formation. Earth. The journey that the particles that form us have made is astounding. Quite literally, the atoms in your pinky fingernail used to reside in a massive star somewhere else in the cosmos. Years after you're dead, these atoms will make up parts of soil, plants, and other animals. Billions of years from now, when the earth has been reduced to a cinder and blown out into space, the atoms that make you up now will be set free again. The whole process will start over again, and your atoms will end up in another nebula, or star, or planet. Maybe even in new life. This is reality, and it's a fate more bizarre, and more awe-inspiring, than anything our ancestors ever dreamed.
Let's all assume we agree that most people believe that some variation of the above happens after death. The question is: why? Societies throughout history have believed in an existence after death. Afterlife concepts have grown over millennia, shaped by the cultures in which they thrive. While the details vary greatly ("Reincarnation is ridiculous! Everyone knows that when you die you go to Lollipop Mountain and frolic in the Cotton Candy Fields!"), the basic premise is the same. In fact, tales of an afterlife are a component of nearly every mythology that we have studied.
The details of these afterlives differ tremendously. The afterlife of the Greeks was Hades. Unlike today, where the term Hades has taken on a meaning closer to the Christian concept of Hell, to the Greeks Hades was just a pretty dull, formless space. It wasn't a happy place, but neither was it a place of torment. It was simply where the soul went when someone died. The only exceptions were those who were specially favored by the gods and taken to live at Olympus (such as Hercules). The ancient Egyptians, on the other hand, had a nicer idea of an afterlife, which was essentially like a better version of earth. The only catch was that the soul had to traverse a gauntlet of obstacles to get to it, only to face judgment by Osiris at the end. If the unfortunate soul's life was filled with enough wickedness, it was devoured by the monster Ammut. The Zoroastrians had a similar notion of judgment, and also were one of the first cultures to promote the idea of Hell. It was during the Babylonian captivity that the Jews adopted this notion (prior to this, they were pretty content with a dull idea of the afterlife --see the Greeks). There are an unlistable number of additional competing views, from the Native Americans, to Wiccans, to Vikings.
Today, the dominant viewpoint in the Western world is the Judeo-Christian/Islamic idea of the Abrahamic creator God. This God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Depending on how closely you adhere to a strict set of rules (which varies greatly, not just between Jews, Muslims, and Christians, but between countless factions within these religions), you are either admitted into Heaven forever with God, or cast forever into Hell, where wailing and gnashing of teeth generally ensues. Different script, but same basic story as the rest. At the very least, the central idea is the same: something, some entity generally referred to as the soul, that comprises all that is "you" continues to exist in perpetuity after we die. Since most cultures have believed something along these lines, there must be something to it, right? Well.......no.
Countless cultures have believed lots of things. They have believed that the stars were really people that the gods placed into the heavens after they died. They have believed that the earth was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth. They have been convinced that tiny men lived in seminal fluid, and that women simply served as incubators. Today, in Africa, there are plenty of people who believe that having sex with (or, just as often, raping) a virgin will cure AIDS. Beliefs are funny things. Believing unfounded ideas just because everyone else does too is just not a good practice.
The reality of the situation is that people believe in an afterlife for several reasons. The oldest reasons can be attributed to humanities' earliest attempts to explain the natural world, and to try to define the deep mystery of what happens when life simply stops working. I believe this persists to this very day. For all of our knowledge, the idea of not existing anymore is a very difficult concept to grasp. So difficult, in fact, that it is much easier to imagine an alternate existence after death rather than no existence at all.
Another reason that the idea of the afterlife persists is related to the "meaning of life" argument. To most people, existing for a handful of years and then ceasing to exist is not acceptable. What's the point, they ask? There must be more. It is our tendency to attribute meaning and purpose to everything. Plants are "meant" for eating, wood is "meant" for fuel and building, and so on. If everything here is "meant" for something, it is reasonable for many people to assume that we are also "meant" for something. Of course, the premise is that everything else is meant for our use, while we are meant for a nobler purpose. This is, of course, ridiculous (but this is veering towards a discussion of evolution, and that's for another day).
A very basic reason people believe is our need for reward/punishment. Good deeds, noble acts, selfless gestures -- all of these things are to be rewarded. Evil deeds, spiteful acts, hate and greed -- we desire justice and punishment for those who do such things. Sadly, the reality is that plenty of people do horrible things and never get caught. Awful, stomach-churning atrocities are committed all the time for which no one ever pays. It is a small comfort to imagine that these people will be punished in the next life even if they manage to evade justice in this one.
There are even more reasons than this: desire to be reunited with loved ones, fear of the unknown, even firsthand "near death experience". And yet, while there are enough reasons to keep on listing them for pages, what's lacking is evidence. To the chagrin of those people who trumpet NDE's, feelings very similar to NDE's can be recreated in a lab setting. It is doubtful that a deep mystical experience such as treading the Stairway to Heaven (don't sue me, Led Zep) could be duplicated by men in lab coats. More likely is that the sensation of the NDE is a natural function of an injured or dying brain. (click here for more info). NDE's are, by all accounts, very powerful experiences. I have no trouble understanding how such an event could radically impact views on the existence of an afterlife. But, the fact that the same experience is reproducible in a lab undermines a lot of the "mystical" nature of the experience. NDE's are the best empirical evidence for life-after-death. If so, it's hardly encouraging for the afterlife's existence.
A critical look at the facts, it seems, is not encouraging for the existence of an afterlife. And why should it be? We are organic creatures, with the same life processes as a cat or a hedgehog. No one seems particularly bothered by the question of a hedgehog afterlife, and with good reason. It doesn't fit in with the available evidence. This idea, the thought that our existence is very finite, is disturbing to most people (myself included). But there is another, amazing side to this story. Take the time to consider the events that have transpired to bring you here, reading this. Supernovae explosions generated heavy elements, new stars formed containing these elements, and then more explosions, more stars, planet formation. Earth. The journey that the particles that form us have made is astounding. Quite literally, the atoms in your pinky fingernail used to reside in a massive star somewhere else in the cosmos. Years after you're dead, these atoms will make up parts of soil, plants, and other animals. Billions of years from now, when the earth has been reduced to a cinder and blown out into space, the atoms that make you up now will be set free again. The whole process will start over again, and your atoms will end up in another nebula, or star, or planet. Maybe even in new life. This is reality, and it's a fate more bizarre, and more awe-inspiring, than anything our ancestors ever dreamed.
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Comment by Wendi
Because science has yet to find a way to prove ghostly encounters and haunts, I don't suppose those would count as proof of afterlife, either.
NDEs - I flatlined once. I'd have thought I'd have seen a bright light, perhaps an angel or two, a quick chat with the All Mighty who sends me back saying my purpose isn't filled, yada yada. Instead, I hovered. I saw my body on the operating table, I heard the doctors go into their medical panic, I felt myself being "sucked" back in, I heard a voice say, "She's coming back"... and then gave way once again to the anasthetics keeping me unconscious. It wasn't nearly as exciting as I thought it would be, and damn it, I didn't wake with any special powers or enlightened gifts - other than escaping the epidsode with my life.
I believe you hit the nail on the head when suggesting most afterlife theories stem from our lack of "comfort" in accepting finality. I also personally don't like to think I've gone through "all this" for nothing. It's not a reward I want, but maybe another chance to do a few things differently, or to experience things that weren't possible to experience in this lifetime under the conditions I was born into. I prefer to look at life like a school - we're here for the experience of it, and not everything can be learned in kindergarden. We come back and continue learning on new levels. But, of course, I can't prove that and won't claim it as fact. It's just the theory that suits me best.
I think another thing that fuels my own inability to conceive of "that's it, you're dead" is that nothing ever really goes all the way away. Things morph and change and blend with other things. Everything is recycled in some way. If you took an airplane and disassembled it, recycling each part, the physical body of the plane wouldn't exist in the shape of a plane anymore, but all of its pieces and parts do still exist, just in altered forms and locations.
I guess I look at human existance similarly to how I look at water. The same water has been coming to and leaving the planet for eons. It comes down, it evaporates, it comes back down. Again... theory, not proof.
It's been a pleasure having my coffee with you this morning. Thanks for stretching my mind.
W
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
I understand that people DO sometimes experience something that we call an NDE, but I believe that is a purely natural phenomenon. As you've no doubt figured out by now, I'm not content with settling for the easy answer. Many experiences that were once thought to be supernatural in fact have very natural causes (demonic possession comes to mind).
The area that you and I are very much on the same page on is the recycling idea you referenced. That's a basic law of physics: matter can neither be created nor destroyed, simply altered in form. When it comes to religions, the Hindus probably are on the right track. In a very, very literal sense, reincarnation is marginally true: the matter that makes up you will come back again. However, there's a big difference between matter surviving and consciousness surviving. As much as it would be nice to believe that this little mind I've carried around for 30 years is here to stay, I just can't accept that.
Glad I could be part of your morning!
Comment by David
I loved this section most:
For all of our knowledge, the idea of not existing anymore is a very difficult concept to grasp. So difficult, in fact, that it is much easier to imagine an alternate existence after death rather than no existence at all.
I would question your ending though:
Billions of years from now, when the earth has been reduced to a cinder and blown out into space, the atoms that make you up now will be set free again. The whole process will start over again, and your atoms will end up in another nebula, or star, or planet. Maybe even in new life. This is reality, and it's a fate more bizarre, and more awe-inspiring, than anything our ancestors ever dreamed.
Mainly the phrase, this is reality.
So others can have their realities but you won't recognise them? They have to adhere to your reality? ...
Our realities differ ...
I enjoyed the article ... but at the end of the day ... ??? ... Simplicity and acceptance wins every time to me ...
I'm not into flowery philosophical verbiage that much nowadays ...
All of this, my opinion versus yours bullshit? ... I'll give it a miss thanks ...
I enjoyed the article for what is was ... as in, the outpourings of a person with a thinking enquiring mind ... but my main interest in your journey is ... 'Will you ever arrive at simplicity?' ...
And don't worry if you feel like deleting my comment and coming back at me hard ... Everyone else does ... I'll just laugh and continue in my own simplicity ...
David ...
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
I would argue with your overall premise, however, that there is more than one "reality". This is simply not the case. There may be different opinions of what reality is, but only one of them can be true. From a scientific stance, which is what I adhere to, our true fate is as stated above. There are observable reasons to believe this. The same can not be said for some other ideas.
If you are content with simplicity, best wishes to you. You aren't alone.
Comment by David
Your presumption that my overall premise is 'there is more than one reality' is totally erroneous ... It is an unfounded assumption and presumption ...
I did not write (neither in my surface text nor suggest in my subtext) that there was more than one reality at all ...
I wish people would learn how to read ...
I merely stated that our realities differ ... You adhere to a different reality to me ... (that in no way indicates an overall premise of 'there is more than one reality'.
My premise, just to set the record straight:
There is only one reality.
David ...
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Had you said, "You adhere to a different IDEA or OPINION of the nature of reality" I would have understood you better. Thanks for clarifying.
Comment by Lilla
From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop
I too have had an NDE and [like Wendi], no bright lights in sight... only hovering... lots of hovering and receding to the end of long tunnels and such like..although I do remember feeling something, a sadness at not being able to make my children recognise I was still there... then I wasn't anymore and I woke up... in great pain... and so it goes...
Someone once said they believed in multi-verses and I guess there are many different ones of those. In reality everyone is a universe of their own thoughts... like planets and solar systems... but all part of the one big galaxy?
I like David's simplicity model because it brings peace and dwells in acceptance... but I also have an enquiring mind and as you say, agree that ;
So each person to their own peace and truth of this dilemma... the true joy in meeting someone to share it with... until it doesn't matter where you go, perhaps?
But not to the point of pondering the question until you feel empty or panic... that is indeed a separate reality to mine, whatever they are calling it these days, and leads men to heart attacks.
I do past life regressions and Karmic work for people and am too aware of reincarnation - first hand - not to believe it. Recycling is not a new phenomemon invented by man, but indeed a slow one for mankind to get the hang off...*lol* who cares if you don't have a brain whilst you're floating about *chuckle* ((just kidding))
The point is that the universe is really maleable and we create what we do by thoughts. Someone even said that Lucifer was sorry, realised his mistake, made his peace and that we could all go home, but nobody knows yet!
So it is said : that you will see in death that which you imagine it to be in life... until you learn better.
A great post!
Lilla ...
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
There is no doubt that there is some finite amount of matter floating around in the universe, and it gets put to different uses over time. I still contend, though, that there is a HUGE difference between physical matter and consciousness. And yet, the two are inextricably linked (ie. our consciousness is a product of matter. It is completely subject to the physical states of our brains. Alter that state and consciousness is altered. Damage it completely, and it stops.). Because of this, to me, the evidence for afterlife scenarios is simply not at all compelling. I don't want to dispute your experience with past-life regression, reincarnation, etc., but to me it seems that those results can be mis-leading. Past-life regression, from the little I know, takes place while under some form of hypnosis or deep meditation. The problem with these states is that people are highly suggestible at that time. They can be inadvertently led to storytell, without having any intent to do so. The human mind is fantastically complex, not least of all in its capacity for creative invention. Occam's razor forces me to lean towards the simpler explanation here.
But, I've been wrong before
Comment by D. Armenta
The Florida Keys and Everglades
The Black Sheep Chronicles
What constitutes bad manners?
The male mystique
Debate Fan
L.A.M.P.
Zombies? After walking around the local Wal-Mart, I begin to suspect it's true.
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
As for Wal-Mart *shudder*.....I try to avoid it as much as possible, especially since I heard about this. Still, it is unavoidable now and then, although my wife and I much prefer Target for our cheap shopping.
Probably just as evil, but with nicer stuff and fewer zombies.
If Jesus is a zombie it answers some questions. Uber-religions folks seem very dumb sometimes, as the Lord has eaten their brains. It all makes sense now.