13yr Old Boy Becomes a Dad - updated Feb 19th
February 17th 2009 09:23
I mean seriously!!!! Should the parents not be charged for this - I cannot understand how it can even be possible. At 13 I was yet to receive a pube let alone have sex. I don't think I had even ejaculated by this age. I do feel sorry for him - he is still a child and has no idea what has just happened and OMG how is that for luck, first time you have sex and BAMM - pregnant.
His "girlfriend" is just sick - she at least looks like a teenager but seeing them together makes me feel ill. She should be babysitting him - not having sex with him.
Alfie Patten, 13, and his girlfriend Chantelle Steadman, 15, decided to keep Maisie who was conceived after one night of unprotected sex.
Alfie, who is just 4ft tall, hasn't yet hit puberty and was 12 when the baby was conceived, said: "When my mum found out, I thought I was going to get in trouble. We wanted to have the baby but were worried about how people would react.
"I didn't know what it would be like to be a dad. I will be good though, and care for it," he told The Sun newspaper.
His daughter Maise Roxanne was born four days ago and weighed 7lb 3oz. The couple are from Eastbourne, East Sussex.
Chantelle, the baby's mother, said last night: "I’m tired after the birth. I was nervous after going into labour but otherwise I was quite excited.
“Me and Alfie went. The doctor asked me whether we had sex. I said yes and he said I should do a pregnancy test. He did the test and said I was pregnant. I started crying and didn’t know what to do."
They found out 12 weeks into the pregnancy but hid it from their parents for a further six weeks until Chantelle's mother, Penny, 38, became suspicious when her daughter started gaining weight and confronted her about it.
“[Alfie] said I should tell my mum but I was too scared," Chantelle said.
“We didn’t think we would need help from our parents. You don’t really think about that when you find out you are pregnant. You just think your parents will kill you.”
Denny Patten, Alfie's father, said his son does not really understand the gravity of the situation - but seemed to want to be a good father.
UPDATE AS OF THURSDAY 19TH FEB
UPDATE 1 - FROM WWW.COMMUNITYCARE.CO.UK
Alfie Patten case: East Sussex complains to press watchdog
Council says media coverage could harm children's welfare
East Sussex Council has written to the Press Complaints Commission to warn that the media storm surrounding Alfie Patten – a 13-year-old who recently fathered a child – could harm his welfare.
Patten entered the media spotlight when newspapers discovered that he and a 15-year-old girl had become parents on 9 February.
Formal complaint
Following a week of intense press and media coverage of the case, East Sussex's director of children's services, Matt Dunkley, lodged a formal complaint with the PCC on 17 February.
A council spokesperson said that the interests of the children and young people involved were “not being well-served”. He added: “We will continue to do our professional job of supporting these children and putting their interests first, and for that reason we will not be commenting on this issue further other than to say that we have referred the case to the PCC.”
The PCC is already in the middle of an inquiry into alleged payments made by the Sun newspaper and People magazine to Patten’s parents.
According to its code of practice, parents or guardians should not be paid for material involving a child's welfare. However, this rule can be broken if there is a “demonstrable public interest”.
UPDATE 2 - FROM http://www.nydailynews.com
Doubts are mounting as to whether or not 13-year-old Alfie Patten is the father of a newborn baby after eight other teens have stepped forward saying they could be the dad, the Daily Telegraph reports.
In a story that has captivated Britain since it first broke on the front page of the tabloid, The Sun, the baby-faced Patten is claiming to have fathered a child with his girlfriend, 15-year-old Chantelle Steadman. The young mother gave birth to a 7-pound, 3-ounce girl named Maisie Roxanne last week in Eastbourne, on England's southern coast.
Alfie has publically called for a paternity test, after two teens, aged 16 and 14, also claimed they had sex with Chantelle around the time of Maisie's conception. His 45-year-old dad, Dennis, is reportedly considering having the results opened on television, the Daily Telegraph reports.
The Daily Star reports six other teens have stepped forward with similar claims since.
Chantelle denies that any of the other teens could be her child's father.
"Alfie's the only boy I've been with," she told the Telegraph.
A publicist representing the Patten family told the Telegraph that Alfie will take the paternity test "as soon as possible".
His "girlfriend" is just sick - she at least looks like a teenager but seeing them together makes me feel ill. She should be babysitting him - not having sex with him.
Alfie Patten, 13, and his girlfriend Chantelle Steadman, 15, decided to keep Maisie who was conceived after one night of unprotected sex.
Alfie, who is just 4ft tall, hasn't yet hit puberty and was 12 when the baby was conceived, said: "When my mum found out, I thought I was going to get in trouble. We wanted to have the baby but were worried about how people would react.
"I didn't know what it would be like to be a dad. I will be good though, and care for it," he told The Sun newspaper.
His daughter Maise Roxanne was born four days ago and weighed 7lb 3oz. The couple are from Eastbourne, East Sussex.
Chantelle, the baby's mother, said last night: "I’m tired after the birth. I was nervous after going into labour but otherwise I was quite excited.
“Me and Alfie went. The doctor asked me whether we had sex. I said yes and he said I should do a pregnancy test. He did the test and said I was pregnant. I started crying and didn’t know what to do."
They found out 12 weeks into the pregnancy but hid it from their parents for a further six weeks until Chantelle's mother, Penny, 38, became suspicious when her daughter started gaining weight and confronted her about it.
“[Alfie] said I should tell my mum but I was too scared," Chantelle said.
“We didn’t think we would need help from our parents. You don’t really think about that when you find out you are pregnant. You just think your parents will kill you.”
Denny Patten, Alfie's father, said his son does not really understand the gravity of the situation - but seemed to want to be a good father.
UPDATE AS OF THURSDAY 19TH FEB
UPDATE 1 - FROM WWW.COMMUNITYCARE.CO.UK
Alfie Patten case: East Sussex complains to press watchdog
Council says media coverage could harm children's welfare
East Sussex Council has written to the Press Complaints Commission to warn that the media storm surrounding Alfie Patten – a 13-year-old who recently fathered a child – could harm his welfare.
Patten entered the media spotlight when newspapers discovered that he and a 15-year-old girl had become parents on 9 February.
Formal complaint
Following a week of intense press and media coverage of the case, East Sussex's director of children's services, Matt Dunkley, lodged a formal complaint with the PCC on 17 February.
A council spokesperson said that the interests of the children and young people involved were “not being well-served”. He added: “We will continue to do our professional job of supporting these children and putting their interests first, and for that reason we will not be commenting on this issue further other than to say that we have referred the case to the PCC.”
The PCC is already in the middle of an inquiry into alleged payments made by the Sun newspaper and People magazine to Patten’s parents.
According to its code of practice, parents or guardians should not be paid for material involving a child's welfare. However, this rule can be broken if there is a “demonstrable public interest”.
UPDATE 2 - FROM http://www.nydailynews.com
Doubts are mounting as to whether or not 13-year-old Alfie Patten is the father of a newborn baby after eight other teens have stepped forward saying they could be the dad, the Daily Telegraph reports.
In a story that has captivated Britain since it first broke on the front page of the tabloid, The Sun, the baby-faced Patten is claiming to have fathered a child with his girlfriend, 15-year-old Chantelle Steadman. The young mother gave birth to a 7-pound, 3-ounce girl named Maisie Roxanne last week in Eastbourne, on England's southern coast.
Alfie has publically called for a paternity test, after two teens, aged 16 and 14, also claimed they had sex with Chantelle around the time of Maisie's conception. His 45-year-old dad, Dennis, is reportedly considering having the results opened on television, the Daily Telegraph reports.
The Daily Star reports six other teens have stepped forward with similar claims since.
Chantelle denies that any of the other teens could be her child's father.
"Alfie's the only boy I've been with," she told the Telegraph.
A publicist representing the Patten family told the Telegraph that Alfie will take the paternity test "as soon as possible".
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Comment by Damo
Special mention to the SUN for glamorizing this.
Comment by sam sall
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Comment by Norm
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Comment by Lilla
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I loved her reaction to the question of what he was going to do for money... It looked to me like it was a very sobering thought.
I find this funny, does that make me sick in some way?
Who knows the world could be ending in three years, although .. maybe not.
L.
Comment by Dawn Ellis-Lopez
Physiologically, sperm can be produced and active as young as eight to ten, I'm told. If a kid can whack off and ejaculate, the sperm are active. Women carry the same eggs their entire lives, and it's even possible to get pregnant before menstruation starts - although it's really, really unhealthy.
I gotta say, though... have they proven that it's his kid? There's something about this girl that does not make me feel right... there's something wrong with this picture.
Comment by Jason King
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Sam - see Dawn's comment to answer your question. It seems impossible but who knows - I do know in some countries 12 is the legal marrying age so anything is possible (if somewhat sickening to the rest of us).
Norm - I think he put her in the basket on front of his pushie!
Lilla - this one I saw on the Channel 10 news then Googled - the other ones I just stumble upon while searching for bizarre news stories. And no - it does not make you sick. Just an oddball
Dawn - thanks for the info. It is the curious thing for me that seems odd - what happened to worrying about Play Station, Wii and girl germs - not having sex with the chick down the road that could babysit me. Ooh - I do like your conspiracy theory - it does seem odd the more I look at it. Time will tell if something leaks out of the press. Imagine if it's a hoax - I love it!
Thanks heaps for the comments people - I hope you all have a kick ass day!!
Comment by Mr Nice Guy
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The lad looks about 8 - which is even more disturbing.
Comment by Rachel H
Freedom in a Fishbowl
I really don't think anyone should go to prision over it - what good could that do?
Sex education is what is needed, as children are having sex younger, schools and parents need to educate kids about sex earlier.
I feel for them all, especially the baby... the odds that the parents will stay together are minuet. That poor baby will no doubt suffer from this more than anyone.
Comment by Sara Dobson
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Rachel - I think the parents do need more than a serious talking too - would you not feel responsible if you had a 13yr old child who managed to get someone pregnant - maybe I am a conservative prude (who would have thought
Sara - who knows how the child's life will be - but even mature aged financially secure parents can totally suck ass (forgive my technical description) but that is the joy and sadness of life - how things and environments will shape that child. I am thinking the children's parents will end up being more of the "raisers" than the children themselves.
Anonymous 1 - I agree to some extent - we are all quick to judge and I wish them the best of luck on their unusual journey. Although I am sure they will get support after the multitude of press coverage in regards to it.
Anonymous 2 - I agree with "You Go Alfie" but seriously I doubt if either of them actually know what love is yet.
Thanks for all the comments people - been a fun post to read comments on and see everyone's opinion.
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Jason King
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As a follow up thanks to MNG (Mr Nice Guy) a paternity test is on its way - apparently two other people have come forward saying they have had encounters with Chantelle Steadman. It also appears the council is in some trouble for offering to pay for the test. And further news is that Alfie's mum is in court tomorrow being charged with "failing to make her child attend a school".
I hope the baby is kept out of this and someone responsible will be assisting with the raising.
Comment by Wilson Pon
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Comment by Jason King
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Comment by Cheryl J
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The tabloids, by law, should never have been able to print his picture due to his age but once again his money grubbing parents gave them permission.
The latest on this is that 5, that's right 5, boys have come forward to say they all had unprotected sex with this girl around the time of conception. the fact that this child is so promiscuous at such a young age and the fact that she has sex with a boy that could pass for an 8 year old says to me she is unfit to be a parent - she is obviously very very immature. The baby should be removed by child protective services and her parents should get a legal slap upside the head. They are obviously letting her roam around unsupervised, probably at night, for her to be able to have had sex with so many boys.
I would seriously doubt this boy is the father as he has not yet reached puberty. He may be able to produce sperm but it is still highly unlikely.
What a sad case. I feel so sorry for the silly children caught up in this drama and for the poor baby.
Comment by Jason King
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Thanks for the update Cheryl - your words are as always nicely accurate and passionately written.
Well said - thanks!
Comment by Hyeseo
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It wouldn't surprise me if the baby isn't Alfie's. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there is something much more sinister lurking there.
Comment by Jason King
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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Comment by Jason King
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I want the parents to be punished in some way but it looks like mum starts her punishment tomorrow for not making her son go to school. But what of the girl's parents??
Have a good one!
Comment by Morgan Bell
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like if they were both 12 you could put it down to messing around and curiousity
but a 15 yo enging in sex with a 12 yo is clearly a case of the older "partner" taking advantage, possibly intimidation or coersion
i would be interested to know when their birthdays fall and what the local laws are in their region
Comment by Spike 2
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The parents of these two obviously have no clue whatsoever. The comment by the father sounds like he hardly even knows his son at all. I'll bet he's happy to be raking in several hundreds of thousands of pounds for the scandal, though.
Comment by Whitney
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Comment by Wilson Pon
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It's about the ethic and morale of the human beings!
Comment by disgusted
btw Alfie luks lyk a 7 or 8 yr old kid!! its disgusting!! Ppl sjud really file a lawsuit against Sun 4 d unnecessary, sick hype ant dis....
Comment by Jason King
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Spike - sounds good to me, we can't say that she would turn out completely deranged though. From the ashes can come a phoenix - oh crap did I just sound poetically religious? I mean, I had a shite parent, lots of people have crap parenting and can turn into fabulous human beings. Tie will tell. If it is his child then best of luck to them. Yeah - not a fan of his parental units at all!
Whitney - my neighbors kid is 6 and he looks older than this kid. I also hope it isn't his.
Wilson - tell me about it - the most popular article I have ever placed on Orble. Also, one of the articles I have done the least amount of work on. Although children's rights and wellbeing is something I am extremely passionate about.
Thanks heaps for the comments people - as more info comes out I will post an update! Have a great day!
Comment by Person 1
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Comment by Wynona Lavota
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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i was the person talking about stat rape and i dont feel i need to "get a grip" at all
that little boy was 12 when he had sex with the girl whos twice his size, and many regions consider that too young to give informed content when the person preying on you is over 2 years older
if you cant see how wrong it it clearly, then maybe it would help you to reverse the genders and think how you would like it if your 12 year old daughter, still at primary school, was coerced into having sex by a 14 or 15 year old boy in highschool
Comment by Jason King
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Person 1 - that is incredibly smart and mature of you - and I am very happy u is in love with your girlfriend. Awesome - hope things go well for you guys!
Earl - to alot of people it is a big deal. If it doesn't phase you then this is ok too, but I haven't seen one person say "let's return to the good old days" - they are looking at the moment happening now and it isn't good at all. Morgan explains it well in her last comment - swap the genders and think how you would feel.
Teresa - thanks for your opinion. Reactionary and judgemental - this is what Orble is about - to share opinions and "get over it" via the world of blogging. Is your comment not reactionary and judgemental to all the people who have commented? If he is the father I am happy he will sprout up but this is a 13yr old kid who looks 8 who has just become a dad - he has not even started high school yet. What were you doing at 13? I do agree there are some advantages of being a young parent - my mum had me at 18, we were more like friends than parent/ son - but the disadvantage is that mum found it hard to be a parent as well as a friend and she struggled, missing out on years of what teenagers and early 20's people got to do - no uni, no travelling, no more boyfriends, working 3 jobs a day etc. Fortunately though she is getting to experience some of those things now. I do think Morgan sums up the "get a grip" comment better than I could. But yes it does "look" bad - if I was in their family somehow I may see things a lot different.
Wynona - I know - let's hope so - if you read through some of the comments you can see a few updates on what has been happening.
Air Max - totally
Morgan - I never thought about reveresed genders - I can now picture dad's with shotguns hunting kids down but the girl gets a sponsor and air time - totally weird.
Everyone - I cannot thank you enough for commenting and sharing your diverse thoughts and opinions. it has been the best article I have ever had and seeing everyone being so passionate about this story is just great - have an awesome day/ night/ week/ month/ year!
Comment by Jason King
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Comment by alt_ed
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It would solve so many problems.... *SIGH SIGH SIGH*
Comment by Jason King
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Comment by Teresa Ralton
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Morgan, i thought it was a few people talking about the stat rape laws but I see it was just you and Jason.
To resond to your comment/question: You seem to be suggesting that the girls' size makes it wrong for her to have sex with the boy. There is only a 2 year age difference. What an assumption you are making to say that the boy was coerced? How can you possibly have any idea of what took place? And that old 'just imagine if it was you' argument makes no sense to me at all for a number of reasons which would just take up too much space here. It depends so much on individual circumstances but, generally, I don't agree that an older female having sex with a boy is on the same page as when the sexes are reversed. And this girl was only 2 years older.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
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Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
My mum always told me to never get myself into a situation that I couldn't get out of easily before I was 25 ie marriage and babies.
And she was right. What I wanted at 18 was different to what I wanted at 21 and different again at 25.
Sure the situation may have happened and there's not much anyone can do about but deal with it the best they can but to just simply say "oh well, so now there's a kid" is little dismissive considering the enormity of the situation.
The 'father' (if he is indeed the father since there are other contenders)n didn't even know what financially meant.
Education is the key.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i think it is you that is making an assumption that it is not possible he was coerced or taken advantage of because your own personal circumstances lead you to believe a 12yo can consent
it is generally accepted that a 12yo does not have the ability to consent to sex, you can disagree if you like, (understandable if you felt you had the ability at a similar age), but its one of those things that experts decided based on average developmental progress, and this concept of inability to consent is reflected in the law
in your own example there is a four year difference, do you have the same opinion of a 19 year old sleeping with a 15 year old? or a 14 year old sleeping with a 10 year old? are there any limits, or should we always take the childs word for it?
it is an issue of size, but also of mental development, emotional maturity, social independance, education, knowledge, and decision-making skills
a 14-15yo is most likely in the workforce with a part-time job, selecting school subjects, catching public transport etc, with a higher degree of leadership and communication skills than their 12yo sweetheart who doesnt know what the word "financially" means
there was a case not that long ago of a 14yo boy in Boston, USA charged with stat rape for having sex with 11 and 12yo girls . . . those little girls agreed to the sexual activity but it was deemed they were unable to consent due to their age
i see this case as no different other than the genders being reversed
the girl in this case, Chantelle, is in a position of power due to her seniority
i know Canada also has the "age difference clause" in their stat rape laws
its not uncommon, but it is also not completely consistant across all countries, states, shires etc.
im not taking you to task on your personal opinions about when the age of consent begins, im just pointing out that having sex with a 12yo is a big deal in many parts of the world
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
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Seriously, can you not see that someone at the age of 13 is still far more a child than someone at age 15? This boy is still developing into adulthood, and the older people get the less difference an age gap makes... BUT when you're talking about children and teenagers, the age gap is far greater.
Speaking from (VAST) experience, I know how older people prey on the naivety of youth... I'm sorry to hear that this has also been the case with you being manipulated by an older partner.
But as I said before, if only we could sterilise white trash there'd be none of this mess!
Comment by Teresa Ralton
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*** Nowhere in my comments did I say that the boy wasn't coerced. That is a possibility that I wouldn't presume to discount. You, however, stated categorically that he must have been coerced, or even intimidated. You can't really know what went on.
***The laws against child sex have been passed mainly to protect children from adult predators, not from there peers. But, in any case,
***The fact that something is enshrined in law does not make it a moral absolute.
*** If you re-read my comments you will see that I didn't say that I had sex at 13. I said I had an older boyfriend and that a lot of girls I knew had sex. I should have been clearer.
***The fact that this kid doesn't know what 'financially' means, has zero relevance to what sort of a parent he will make. In the olden days, when people had very large families, older siblings often took on a great part of the raising of the younger children. And they were mostly illiterate. Education,etc,etc is very necessary, of course, but why should it be assumed that becoming a parent at a young age will preclude these things?
***I believe that most of the criticism against these kids has arisen because it doesn't 'look' right. The girl was 14 when she had sex with this boy, she wasn't an mature woman. To suggest, as you do, that
if this isnt stat rape under the law it should be seems to me to be a very harsh moral stance to take. And invoking the various laws from various countries to support your condemnation doesn't make it a less harsh judgement on a 15 year old girl.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
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Comment by meee
Comment by alt_ed
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I think if this dick nob white trash whore got knocked up by a 12yr old its pretty clear she's been using him for her own personal gain.
Basically, she seems to be from a long line of other what trash whores... Do you think that any of the comments above are a direct attack on your own core values? Being of course, that you want to reserve the right to fuck minors?
What's the law anyway pffffft You're right! Hell, I might just smash you in the face with a steel pole... who cares if it's against the 'LAW'--- it's still not a moral absolute.
It's nice to read though, that even though you lack that "education etc, etc" you still see the importance of it.
Comment by alt_ed
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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by dismissing the idea of stat rape in this case you seem to be saying that a 12yo boy can (and did) consent
i dont believe he has the ability to consent
im not talking about whether he is suited to being a parent, i am talking about the legality of the sex act
media reports are saying Alfie was 12yo when the baby was conceived, with differing stories about Chantelles age at the time of conception, some say 14, others say 15yo
i dont think its a harsh stance to say it is inappropriate, immoral, and in most cases illegal for her to engage in a sex act with a 12yo
if a 15yo boy had gay sex with Alfie when he was 12yo would you not think it was wrong?
i think the only reason Chantelle wasnt charged was because of her gender
regarding the law in England, where Alfie resides:
If parents are aware of their under-age children having sex, they could theoretically risk prosecution for aiding and abetting unlawful intercourse
according to Sky News the case was investigated:
The force had looked at the case and decided it was "not in anyone's interests" for a prosecution to take place, a Sussex Police spokeswoman said.
its not really that outrageous to suggest this should be looked into, i would be disappointed if the police had not been involved
it is also possible the police have chosen not to pursue it because they dont want to add to the massive media scrutiny the Alfie, Chantelle, and Maisie are already under
no i didnt, what i actually said was:
and i stand by this
hes a 12yo kid, he is less developed than her in every regard, she took advantage
Comment by Whitney
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Meeee - Get some glasses - the font size is bloody annoying.
Teresa - let's just agree to disagree. You, Morgan and Alt_Ed would be very entertaining on a debate team. Your points for the opposing team are well said - but I think you is just being a devil's advocate - your points, while your own and something your'e entitled to, are just moraly wrong to the majority of the world (or this post at the least). This is the second time you have commented on my blogs and created an anger fest. I love people's opinion but somehow you just bring "the nasty" out of people. Why is this? Do you believe what you are saying or do you just hate other people and enjoy owrking them up?
Morgan - your research is flawless and I have to agree with you on all points.
Alt_Ed - funny but maybe a wee bit overboard with the pole thing?
Virginia - Glad you got a laugh out of it all
Whitney - well said!
Thanks for the comments, debates and even passionate arguments people - look forward to reading more.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
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Am I playing devil's advocate ? No, I just find it repugnant to see supposedly mature people taking the moral high ground as an excuse for unkind and extreme reactions towards a young girl. And your comment that I 'bring out "the nasty" in people'? Which people are you talking about? I'd like you to explain. The only one who I can see has turned nasty is Alt-ed. And I find it very telling that you have barely commented on that tirade whilst having a go at me. "A wee bit overboard" is your response. REALLY? It's curious how that vicious dog pops up anytime someone disagrees with Morgan. And it's supposed to be funny. A few googled facts about other countries' laws is not 'flawless research' And I don't think it furthers an argument about morals - which is what this is. And, Jason, it you want to go stating your opinion about a sensitive topics, then be prepared for disagreement.
Comment by Always Eighteen
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And yeah, basically, the only time Orble is any fun is when one of you loonies starts preaching about shit that is just so outrageous one does have to stop and think, "is this bitch for real?"
So yeah Teresa... Um if you wanna try and make out like I am Morgan's alt_er ego, go ahead... we all know your that bloody stupid anyway!
Comment by Dianna G
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I'm the local fifteen year old. Want to hear my opinion?
Girls mature faster than boys 9 times out of 10, both physically and mentally. By saying this, we can say that in a way it was stat rape because she is at a higher level.
Also, the amount that a person changes over the course of two years is a lot larger when the person is young; when you are 33-35, it's not such a big difference as 13-15. (I've been both recently, I know.)
We can't do anything to change it, but the debate is interesting.
As a fifteen year old girl, I defend my right to freedom and to have sex. I do not defend anyone who would take advantage of another human being sexually or in any other way. But I defend my own freedom to do as I like, and I defend my right to have sex.
I realize that not all people my age or younger have the capability to give real consent and to truly understand the situation. However, knowing myself, I would have been able to make the decision realistically at that age, and I do not regret when I did first make the decision to have sex.
On another note, the parents of these teenagers should be the ones to care for the child. I do not think the child should be taken away, as I've seen how much pain that has caused mothers. These two are going through enough, with everyone's eyes on them, questioning and condemning, everyone's negative judgments, and with the child him/herself at risk of being taken away.
I think that the child should be raised more as a younger brother/sister to these two instead of as a parent, but that they should play a role in how the baby comes out. And I also believe that there is too much risk of sending one of the parents to suicide by taking away the baby, and sending the baby to a foster home where no one will care for it.
I don't really care what anyone has to say in response to this, I've said my piece, I just wanted to get my opinion out there since I know most of you have shaky memories of being twelve and fifteen. (Ha.)
~Dianna
Comment by Jason King
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To hear it from someone close to the actual age is refreshing. Thanks!
Always 18 - LOL - I will sell the rights!
Thanks for everyones opinions and have a kick ass weekend - we might actually have a day without rain - woot!
Comment by Morgan Bell
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ouch!
first i need to "get a grip" and now ive committed the sin of googling!
i was trying not to get drawn into your personal attacks and just argue the point, but now you are just being absurd
if you want to debate someone who will not research or present facts i would suggest going over to The Political Brief
if you were a little less paranoid im sure you would realise Jason's post has been no.1 on homepage for the best part of a week and nearly everyone on Orble has commented, so its not really that astounding that Alt_Ed would weigh in on the controversial issue
plenty of people disagree with me, and the majority manage to be much more polite than what you have been here
if you have a problem with Alt-Ed take it up with Alt-Ed or complain to admin, theres no need to be aggressive with someone like Jason who has been nothing but fair and amiable throughout this thread
i think, as Jason said earlier, we will just have to agree to disagree because the debate is not really progressing
Comment by Teresa Ralton
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Comment by Postmodern Critic
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In this situation, two consenting teenagers had sex, and while I would perceive as the boy as too young to be a good father, I don't believe it should be seen as rape of any kind.
Like Teresa, I feel awful that people are being so judgmental, and that it's the girl who is being blamed. It takes two to tango, and also, the person who insulted her looks should be ashamed of himself.
Same with (I think it was Mr Nice Guy) the person who said she was 'a piece of work' - just because 5 or 8 males have claimed to have slept with her does not mean that they actually did. There is nothing wrong eith her behaviour. At most, she may be troubled. If so, the last thing she needs is people saying mean things like that.
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Comment by Justicia
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Consensual or not, the age of consent is 16, so Dianna, technically your boyfriend could have been charged with rape, whether you feel you are mature enough for it or not. There is a reason these laws are in place, it's so children are protected from their own immaturity in making these sorts of decisions.
These two kids need luck and will have to rely heavily on their families to get by. It will be interesting to see the results of the DNA test though.
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Justicia - All I can say is perfectly said - you reflect my thoughts exactly and as soon as the paternity test is out I will post it - have been checking every 5 or so hours - it's driving me nuts. But the fact Alfie's father is considering opening the results on TV is making me sick. But apparently in the UK there is the possibility there has been a "legal" press ban on this story as The Sun is being sued for paying for the story.
Thanks for your comments Orblers and have a kick ass day!
Comment by Cheryl J
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Tabloid papers paid the couple big bucks for photos of Maisie (though now the Press Complaints Commission is investigating the legality of these alleged payments, according to BBC News). What's more, at least 15 television companies were locked in a fierce battle to make a documentary about the cherubic teenager's young fatherhood, and media experts estimated Alfie could earn up to half a million pounds, according to the Independent.
Some British newspapers reported that Penny Steadman, the baby's grandmother, might have devised a plan to cash in on all the publicity she knew the story would create. A friend of the Steadman family, Clive Sim, revealed that Penny told Chantelle to stay quiet about all the other boys she'd slept with because "she knew Alfie being the dad makes a better story." Sim said, "I think there's a big scam going on here."
How does Alfie feel about all of this? Devastated! He agreed to take a DNA test, and according to the Sun, earlier this week he expressed his anger by wearing a hoodie displaying the message, "I'm the daddy, if not f**k you all I'll still be there."
Truly good parenting.
For all of those who are saying we are being judgemental - of course we are! Any person with a shred of decency should be outraged about this. It is legally wrong and morally wrong for these bloodsucking leeches to make money off their children who are all victims in this.
Both sets of parents allowed sleepovers between the two children in the same bed. Neighbours have spoken about the fact that Penny Steadman actively encouraged her daughter to have sleepovers - and not just with Alfie. If that is not bad parenting I don't know what is. Both sets of 'grandparents' should be charged with child endangerment and have all of their children removed by Protective Services.
This was a blatant effort to get money from not only the taxpayers but by selling their stories. I hope the law comes down hard on the parents' for profiteering.
By the way, this is the 38 - yes 38 - year old mother of Chantelle. If this is not a picture of someone who has led a hard life (of most likely drinking and smoking her way through her benefit cheques) then I'll eat my hat. This is the life she wants for her daughter? You bet your arse, if she can make a buck out of it.
You need a licence to own a dog, hell even to own a TV in the UK but anyone can breed - it's their God given right. Sorry but bullshit!
This boy is not equipped to be a parent even if it turns out by some miracle that he fathered it. He isn't even old enough to be employed to do a paper route and you expect him to parent a baby?!?! He should be in a foster home away from his greedy father and Chantelle and her baby should be too if they are to ever have the hope of a normal life. These children and that baby deserve better. Just another cycle of welfare dependence. That is of course if they don't become rich from selling the stories but do you honestly think the children will ever see a cent of it?
For those of you who aren't outraged - I'm disgusted.
No wonder the world is going to hell in a handbasket...and no Jason I have no idea what a handbasket is but it sounds like an interesting mode of transport!
Comment by Dianna G
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Comment by Jason King
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Every so often, a news story emerges that is so disturbing as to prompt complete strangers to pass comment about it on trains, at bus stops and over the headlines in the corner shop. So it is with baby-faced Alfie, who stands, bewildered and exploited, at the centre of this immorality tale for our times.
"I thought it would be good to have a baby," Alfie told the Sun. "When my mum found out, I thought I was going to get into trouble. We wanted to have the baby, but were worried about how people would react. I didn't know what it would be like to be a dad. I will be good, though, and care for it."
When the interviewer – on video – asks 4ft Alfie how he will cope financially, his excruciatingly poignant response speaks volumes about his readiness to take on the responsibilities of parenthood: "What's financially?"
But along with nappy changing and night feeds, Alfie's crash course in adulthood has introduced him to a world where everything has a price, but little has value. What began as a deeply unfortunate, cautionary account of woefully ill-advised adolescent fumbling between Alfie, then 12, and his 15-year-old girlfriend, Chantelle Steadman, has deepened into an extraordinarily dysfunctional quagmire of children taking paternity tests, parents sanctioning underage sleepovers in the same room, and family breakdown, all of it played out on Channel 4 and in the red-top newspapers – for a fee.
Anyone doubting that Britain is broken need only to open yesterday's papers to see Alfie's dad, Dennis – father of nine, or possibly 10 children by various mothers – wearing a bizarre devil mask and brandishing a placard bearing the legend "No Comment Ring Max", a reference to PR guru Max Clifford, who has been drafted in by the parents apparently to maximise the earning potential of their children. Or exploit them, as it is also known.
No detail has been spared, not least to the Press Complaints Commission, which has announced that it is investigating whether payments to the Patten family breach its code of ethics. Local MP Charles Hendry, who wrote to the PCC, urged "an urgent assessment of actions that can be taken to stop this story becoming more grotesque by the day".
It might be too late for that: no detail is being spared, and the picture that results is one that would stretch credulity if it appeared in the grittily outrageous television series Shameless, which now appears a pale imitation of reality.
Neighbours of "the couple" in Eastbourne report that children barely into their teens routinely have sex behind the hedges in gardens, which raises the question of why the police aren't hosing them down with water cannon and frog-marching them home?
Meanwhile, indoors, Chantelle and Alfie shared a room, with her parents' blessing, when he stayed at her house - he even kept a spare uniform there, so frequent were his visits, although her parents say they had no idea the two were having sex.
And for all Alfie's enthusiasm for parenthood, two other boys, aged 14 and 16, have entered the fray, kissing, telling and claiming paternity of Maisie. It could be said that in this age of feckless fathers, their putting their hands up is to be saluted. Then again, the spur appears to have the prospect of tabloid payouts. Alfie has promised to take a DNA test as soon as possible, which will provide Clifford with a new twist. However, given that Alfie, voice unbroken, hasn't reached puberty yet, and that at least one commentator has wondered if it really is biologically possible for him to have fathered a child, it's fair to say he won't be getting any encouragement to beat a path to the lab before it's strictly necessary.
The two other boys, meanwhile, have apparently made sworn statements in front of a solicitor, giving chapter and verse of their alleged sexual encounters with Chantelle. One tabloid alleges that at the time of her daughter's conception, when she was 14, she was sleeping with no fewer than eight teenage boys on the estate. Chantelle's family insist she was a virgin until she and Alfie had sex; Alfie insists that he was Chantelle's only boyfriend and that Maisie was conceived on their first night together. Chantelle, one of five children, whose parents are both unemployed, says she was on the pill, but had forgotten to take it.
In such circumstances, it's hard not to be judgmental – not so much of Alfie and Chantelle, but of the adults who surround them, and those who have seized on their misfortune to market rather than protect them. The real outrage is not that two children had sex and made a baby, lamentable though that may be, but that in some quarters, parental rights and responsibilities have been warped beyond recognition, and children are being reduced to commodities, to be used, abused or discarded at will.
The examples are legion, on a sliding scale of atrocity. Think of Karen Matthews, mother of Shannon, who cynically orchestrated the abduction and drugging of her own child in order to claim a reward, or the Sheffield father sentenced to life imprisonment last November for raping his two daughters for years, resulting in 19 pregnancies and nine babies. Then there was Baby P, tortured and terrified by those who should have loved and nurtured him, or two-month-old Rhys Biggs, who spent most of his short life in agony from rib fractures and broken limbs inflicted by his former crack-addict mother, and died hours after her final attack.
However different is the case of Alfie, Maisie and Chantelle, there is a significant similarity: despite the tender age of the new parents, social workers appear to be equally thin on the ground. Instead, it is up to Alfie's father, he of the devil mask, to provide pastoral care. Rather damningly, when one newspaper asked Dennis Patten's mother Susan to comment on the arrival of her new great-granddaughter, she declined on the grounds that she didn't want to "interfere with my son's business interests".
Patten, who works for a vehicle recovery firm, and who no longer lives with Alfie's mother and their three children, has described how he was "gobsmacked" when Alfie, aka his business interest, broke the news of the pregnancy to him – although given that Jayde, one of his daughters from a different relationship reportedly became pregnant at 13, it surely can't have been that big a surprise.
"When I spoke to Alfie, he started crying," said Patten. "He said it was the first time he'd had sex, that he didn't know what he was doing and the complications that could come. I will talk to him again and it will be the birds and the bees talk. Some may say it's too late, but he needs to understand so there is not another baby."
Ah yes – the baby. She's the one who seems to get overlooked in all this. In the family photographs taken after the birth, Maisie Roxanne looks as though she's being cuddled by her brother, rather than her father. There is something so fundamentally wrong and unnatural about this little family group that it's hard to not to feel a knee jerk sense of revulsion.
Britain has the highest underage pregnancy rate in western Europe, despite channelling substantial resources into sex education for children as young as five. According to the Office for National Statistics, over the past decade 385 girls under the age of 14 have become pregnant, and more than 40 boys under 14 have fathered children; four boys aged 11 have had children in recent years.
Teenage pregnancies have become child pregnancies, and the buck must stop with parents. What hope is there on estates where semi-feral children have intercourse with multiple partners, men routinely father children with a series of women and little boys who become dads before their voices break are in line to be paid a fortune for the television rights?
While nobody would wish to return to the days when gymslip mothers were stigmatised, opprobrium can and should play a powerful role in modifying unwelcome behaviour – like sex among children. But on the estates of Eastbourne, no one seems to feel shame or guilt. Why would they? That Boy Alfie is a local hero, his father is quids in. He's to be congratulated, not pitied.
This is a story that – with the help of media consultants – will run and run. Alfie's life, and that of Chantelle and Maisie, will be served up for consumption like a soap opera. It might seem like a reasonable trade-off, but he'd better not get used to the attention. Now it's clear that there's money to be made, his five minutes of fame won't last. Sooner or later, an
11-year-old boy will come forward, new baby in his arms, and an exclusive interview on his lips.
And hovering in the background will be his father, fielding calls from the press on his mobile and proudly touting his latest business interest.
If you re-read the BOLD bit you will see why I would like to get my hands around the neck of Alfie's father! Appalling!!
38 - Holy Hell - if I look like that in 2yrs I will kill myself! I will research handbaskets!
Diana - yes she does!
Comment by Cheryl J
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Comment by Jason King
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[Q] From Brian Walker: “Can you please tell me anything about the origin of the phrase going to hell in a handbasket?”
[A] This is a weird one. It’s a fairly common American expression, known for much of the twentieth century. But it’s one about which almost no information exists, at least in the two dozen or so reference books I’ve consulted. William and Mary Morris, in their Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins, confess to the same difficulty. A handbasket is just a basket to be carried in the hand (my thanks to the Oxford English Dictionary for that gem of definition). The Dictionary of American Regional English records to go to heaven in a handbasket rather earlier than the alternative, which doesn’t appear in print until the 1940s (Walt Quader tells me that Burton Stevenson included a citation in his Home Book of Proverbs, Maxims and Familiar Phrases from Bayard Kendrick’s The Odor of Violets, published in 1941). But DARE quotes a related expression from 1714: “A committee brought in something about Piscataqua. Govr said he would give his head in a Handbasket as soon as he would pass it”, which suggests that it, or at least phrases like it, have been around in the spoken language for a long time. For example, there’s an even older expression, to go to heaven in a wheelbarrow, recorded as early as 1629, which also meant “to go to hell”. I can only assume that the alliteration of the hs has had a lot to do with the success of the various phrases, and that perhaps handbasket suggests something easily and speedily done.
AND:
you're going to hell in a hand basket
that what you are doing is so bad that, you are going down by the law or with someone that you've hurt and/or you have sinned alot. the devil is carring the basket personally
A handbasket is merely a basket made for carrying in the hand. The relation to "hell in a hanbasket" implies from various sources that the devil is carrying the basket personally with you in it.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
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Comment by Teresa Ralton
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The boy is judged by what he looks like because it shows how much of a child he really is and nothing you can say can convince me a little boy is fit to bring up a baby. Their parents are shameful and these children are victims of a throwaway society who believe that children having children is acceptable. It isn't and it never will be. We came out of the dark ages a long time ago. Lets not let the world revert back by accepting that this is anything but tragic.
Comment by Teresa Ralton
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Comment by Anonymous
"the fact that this child is so promiscuous at such a young age and the fact that she has sex with a boy that could pass for an 8 year old says to me she is unfit to be a parent - she is obviously very very immature."
I think people are sick. The fact that this girl is sleeping with so many people sends a red flag to me that she has probably been used for sex since early childhood. Any mother who would just let boys come over and sleep with her daughter is a bad one. Alfie is unlucky, and I feel very bad for him. But quit looking to stone whores.
Comment by Johnny Come Lately
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Those comments about role reversal made me think too. I can't picture a largish 14-15 year old boy and a little girl that looks like my 9 year old neighbour. I almost threw up. WRONG with either sex.
Comment by Jason King
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I have an email alert for any info regarding the story to get email straight to me - if I get any news will post it straight away.
Thanks for your comments.
Comment by The wonderful Peter Yang
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Stay healthy and loose weight
I can only wish them all the best of all.
Cheers
Comment by Jason King
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I also want to thank everyone for being so honest with their opinions and also for the arguments that ensued. It was great to see how different people are and how passionate they are in defending their opinions. This is why I love blogging so much.
L8erzzzzzzzz